What will my new 6th party member be?

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I've decided to get rid of my BarbarianX/Fighter4. It's not that he was bad, but all my other party members have Evasion and/or SR. I want a character in there that can be spellblasted as well. To be honest, he was only in my party for a bit of variety, because a third frontline battlecleric seems unoriginal and generally unappealing. But as a powergamer I should put aesthetics aside, and consider what's best for the party. Suggestions are welcome, if you convince me to take a build, I'll write it into my new amateur guide IWD2_4dummies.
Some of you are aware that I wrote a guide with character creation tips and leveling strategies, revolving around my own party. Recently I mentioned that I'd wrote a second version of my guide, and it's still downloadable at SpellholdStudios forums. But I made a really big mistake, when I changed my old chaotic neutral Tempus cleric X/bard 5 into a lawful neutral Bane cleric X/bard 5, because bards can't be lawful.

So my guide urgently needs to be rewritten, which gives me an opportunity to overhaul my powergaming party again. The board members have come with really good advice in the past, so I thought it wise to confer in advance.
Insights from sorcerers.net so far, which I'll include:
- 2nd fighter level gets another feat. In the game it states that fighters get "a free feat at 1st level and every 2 levels thereafter", but in reality they get the bonus feats at levels 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. Someone mentioned this in a thread, and I didn't believe them till I tested it.
- Multiclassing seriously delays most classes in the normal mode game. So I wrote my guide to emphasize that timing the mix-ins is very important, so that you don't get delayed unnecessarily. Some mix-ins are still important for quests and crucial bonuses, but I keep them to a minimum.
- An old spoiler about rogue skill checks has made me adjust my rogue accordingly.
- The importance of cleric's Concentration has been made clear to me, so I gave up on Spellcraft and Diplomacy with my clerics, to maximize Concentration.
- Learning about the Dreadmaster of Bane quest (spoiler) has made me appreciate this cleric domain as both a main class and a mix-in.
- The Rapid Shot feat was explained to me, and I agree with the explanation, but I still won't recommend picking this feat.
- A clarifying suggestion from Caradhras about the monk mix-in: Mention Evasion works in armour too.
- The recent discussion about the usefulness of Weapon Specialization.

These are the 5 other members now. What type of 6th character fits in the party best? Right now I'm leaning towards yet another F Drow cleric.
F Drow Lathander X/bard 5
F Drow Bane X/Fighter 4
Deep Gnome Rogue 2/illusionist X/...
Human Sorceress X/paladin 1/...
Human Monk 1/druid X/...

 

Bards, because of their awesome ability to SING at enemies

 

Rapid Shot is worth it if your character will be used as ranged support, IMO it's the type of feat that should be taken early or never.

Bards can be NE and Dreadmasters too so you could change from LN to NE and keep the Bard/Dreadmaster.

If what you're looking for is variety I'd suggest taking a fulltime Rogue for sneak attacks. Rogues have a bad reputation in IWD2 because their sneak attacks are not that effective if you use them like Thieves in BG2 and only backstab with them.

To get more opportunities to sneak attack you can use Invisibility spells or disabling spells that hold, stun or put the enemy to sleep. There is nothing like a high level Rogue smashing held enemies to pieces with a few strikes.

Rogue/Paladin is a good build (not for the bonus from CHA since you don't want to max CHA but for immunities), Rogue/Fighter is good as well (especially for a few extra feats and if you don't take 4 Fighter levels). I'd use a Human or a Tiefling (depending on the secondary class and the fact that getting an extra feat at the start may be a good thing, Tiefling can dump CHA so no problem there). A Halfling will have the added cool factor of being a Belkar look alike but will start with a lower STR which is not good (and two handed weapons on a halfling look pretty dumb, but still).

I'd suggest something like this:

NE Dreadmaster of Bane 1/Barbarian 1/Rogue X.

Starting as a Rogue then either take the Barbarian level (for better weapons) or the Dreadmaster level (for evil dialogue options in the prologue) then get as many Rogue levels as possible.

You get weapon proficiencies and rage from the Barbarian level, Tyrant's Dictum, the WIS bonus, heavy armour proficiency and the commands spell from the Cleric level.

I'd maximize STR and then prioritize CON.
WIS can't be below 12 but you don't need to put too much points in it since you might feel that the character would be more effective as a Cleric (but here we're looking at some variety and that's where the Rogue who is badly underestimated shines).
DEX is not needed and I wouldn't go beyond 14 (if and only if you want Dodge otherwise 10 is fine) reflex saves will be high enough anyway.
INT shouldn't be under 10 so you can still have enough skillpoints to max sneaking skills.
CHA is the dump stat.

When levelling up focus on STR only (better damage and bonus to hit). When the chips are down the Rage can give a really good boost as well.

Weapon: a two hander starting with a quarterstaff and moving on to better weapons as they become available. You'll get more from the high STR and it will help a lot when flanking enemies. You won't use ranged weapons like bows and the like because there is no advantage to be gained from them, returning hammers, slings and other weapons that allow the STR damage bonus can be taken for certain situations when you can't engage in melee but these weapons won't see a lot of action.

Greater Spell Focus Enchantment and Tyrant's Dictum will make the Commands spell hard to resist (at least in normal mode). That's another reason for having a high CON and putting points in concentration. It will allow your character to disable a foe who has a low will save (enemy tanks mostly) and should be quite effective in Normal Mode. You could skip that and forget about the Cleric level entirely if you feel the clerics in the party can take care of that. When I first started to think about that build I had soloing in mind (it's hard to take advantage of sneak attacks when soloing) and I like my characters to be self sufficient (another reason why I'd suggest taking a Barbarian level for rage, if you don't care about that and prefer having your spellcasters using buffs pick a Fighter level instead and forget about the Dreadmaster and Barbarian levels but it may not be so much fun), most of the time my clerics have better things to do so this Rogue can disable foes that he can't normally flank.

Basic tactics: hide, scout, backstab, invisibility (from ring), backstab, cast spell, backstab, repeat. Use flanking when fighting with party members (targetting spellcasters first of course).

Many feats can be taken depending on your style, once your Rogue reaches level 10 you'll be able to take advantage of the Rogue only feats (some of which are very good).

I wouldn't take 4 Fighter levels for that build because the higher the Rogue level is the better the sneak attack damage gets and you want this to be as high as possible as soon as possible. If you go for 4 Fighter levels you won't notice the effectiveness of the Rogue as a Sneak Attacker and that is not what we are aiming for here.

 

What about when the rogue reaches HoF mode? Usefullness becomes wayyyyy lower...

 

I mentioned that point already. Since I utterly loathe HoF I don't really care.

Increasing the difficulty by turning goblins into uber monsters is a poor excuse for allowing characters to get overpowered items and weapons. Tactics4IWD2 is a much better option if you want to increase the difficulty.

 

That's exactly what I didn't want to do - you know what disadvantage an evil cleric has...

With a Dreadmaster in my party, putting them to sleep won't be difficult. And this one would benefit from Improved Invisibility, so he can sneak attack for the whole battle, right?

12WIS and Tyran't Dictum? I do have spellcasters, you know. The annoying thing about rogues is I'd want to dump WIS stat for more points, but their will saves will be low. The banite level helps a bit though.

Do slings really allow for a STR bonus? I played Icewind Gate 2, and BG2 items descriptions contained coding info. Quarterstaves had something like "STR bonus: YES (1.5x)". Slings in IWG2 said "STR bonus: NO", just like the other launchers. It just seems to me that slings would have an unfair advantage over bows and crossbows if they did...

But useless in HoF. But we're talking about level 1 spells, so that's okay. Other bonuses the banite level brings stay useful, like better will saves.

I admit I'm curious about these feats - Slippery Mind would be a great boost to his willpower.

That's the chokepoint for me so far... I won't dismiss this interesting build yet, but I need to think about it more. It might suit my playing style, but I'm not sure.

Ah, the master of no trades. I have been thinking about this one. Bards have a slower spell progression than sorcerers and fewer spells, but their singing is essentially a conditional but infinite resource of 6 spells. Can anyone answer me, if GSF: Enchantment and CHA improves their songs? If so, it makes the bard even more useful. A small problem is giving it some spell defense: A human could take a level monk or two rogue, for Evasion, and be done with it. Drow and deep gnomes would suffer from no multiclassing and limited weapon selection. Humans would have some skillpoints left for Bluff and Intimidate, which my sorcerer lacks. Similar to the rogue, this build would have a poor will saving throw as well.
What I think is really important, is their main spell shools: Bards are primarily enchanters, using GSF: Enchantment well. But in certain battles enchantments are useless, leaving both my Dreadmaster and bard with limited options...
Here's an excerpt from my future guide, pending revision:

Which cleric domain: This is a very complicated and interesting decision, and I eventually rank the most useful down to the least. And it doesn't hurt to compare other non-mage casters (all divine, and bard) as well.
· The first consideration is the bonuses that the classes/cleric domains get. Some interesting ones are paladin saving throw bonuses from charisma, ranger dual-wielding in light or no armour, Bane cleric's Tyrant's Dictum (+1DC will spells), Weapon Focus: Axe for Tempus clerics, bard songs, druid shapeshifting, etc. There are many more, but these aren't crucial for a frontline warrior. The bonuses are too numerous and complicated to all categorize and evaluate, so I must disregard these.
· Another thing to consider, is that Banites and lawful good characters with a paladin mix-in have the potential to benefit from the spoiler mentioned above. This puts Bane clerics and Paladins ahead, as well as lawful good rangers, Ilmater, Lathander and Helm clerics with paladin mix-ins. Druids, bards and rangers with banite mix-in also benefit.
· But the most important consideration, is how to apply your Spell Focus feats, to benefit your spellcasting. Each Spell Focus feat gives you +2DC for spells of that school. But this is only relevant if it is an offensive spell, because it is meant to help you overcome enemy saving throws. This is all it does. It won't give longer durations or better effects, it just makes the spells harder to save against. So I checked each cleric domain's spell selection, searching for spells of the types Enchantment, Evocation, Necromancy and Transmutation, because these schools can be focused in.
So I searched out all the attack spells that utilize spell DC, in these four schools, for all the classes and domains. The results should be interesting, since it will also give tips for which Spell Focus feats to take. I wasn't sure if all magic weapons and offensive barriers use spell DC when attacking, so I included them just in case.
* asterisks indicate if there is another spell on that (domain) spell level, of the same school type. For example, if there are 2 Evocation attack spells on any (domain) level, I just count one, and include an asterisk. So 6*** means there are 9, but only 6 can be memorized.
Alignments are abbreviated between brackets. Enc=Enchantment, Evo=Evocation, Nec=Necromancy, Tra=Transmutation.
Paladin (LG): 1* Evo, 1 Tra.
Ilmater (LG, NG, LN): 3 Nec, 1 Enc.
Lathander (LG, NG, CG, TN): 6* Evo, 1 Nec. (5 are fire evocation)
Selune (NG, CG, CN): 5* Evo, 1 Enc.
Helm (LG, LN, TN, TE): 2 Enc, 2 Evo.
Oghma (NG, LN, TN, CN, NE): 3 Enc, 2 Evo, 1 Nec. (Wail o/t Banshee)
Tempus (CG, TN, CN, CE): 2 Tra, 1* Evo.
Bane (LN, LE, NE): 6*** Enc, 2 Nec, 1 Tra.
Mask (TN, LE, NE, CE): 2 Enc, 2 Evo, 1 Tra, 1 Nec.
Talos (CN, NE, CE): 5** Evo, 4* Nec, 3Tra, 1 Enc. (7 do electrical damage; 4* Evo, 2 Tra) (Wail o/t Banshee)
Ranger (ALL): 5 Evo, 4 Tra, 2* Enc.
Druid (NG, LN, TN, CN, NE): 19 Evo on 8 lvls, 12 Tra on 6 lvls, 4 Nec on 4 lvls, 3 Enc on 3 lvls. (6 fire, 3 electrical)
Bard (NG, CG, TN, CN, NE, CE): 12 Enc on 5 lvls, 5 Evo on 5 lvls, 4 Tra on 2 lvls, 2 Nec on 2 lvls. (Wail o/t Banshee)

So according to me, the strongest to weakest cleric types in combat would be:
1) The Dreadmaster of Bane with Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment, later Necromancy.
2) The Morninglord of Lathander with GSF: Evocation, later Necromancy could improve Holy Smite (Unholy Blight is Evocation, why is this Necromancy? Typo or error?). Spirit of Flame would improve damage.
3) The Stormlord of Talos with GSF: Evocation, then GSF: Necromancy, later Transmutation if possible. Scion of Storms would work very well.
4) The Painbearer of Ilmater with GSF: Necromancy.
5) The Watchknight of Helm with GSF: Enchantment, later Evocation maybe.
6) The Battleguard of Tempus has few attack spells, but a Deep Gnome could take this for example, and take combat abilities and feats when leveling, instead of Spell Focus. Axe feats make it an interesting battlecleric build.
7) The Silverstar of Selune with GSF: Evocation.
8) The Lorekeeper of Oghma with GSF: Enchantment, maybe Evocation, then Necromancy.
9) The Demarch of Mask, all Spell Focus is of limited use.
10) The Druid offers a huge amount of attack spells, many can be improved with Spell Focus. Start with GSF: Transmutation, then Evocation. More focus isn’t needed after that, but Necromancy is slightly more useful than Enchantment. Scion of Storms and Spirit of Flame feats work wonders too. Druids rank 10th because their combat buffs are fewer than clerics, and it makes them poor frontliners, but as offensive spellcasters they should be on top of the list!
11) The Paladin is like an inferior, combat oriented cleric. It offers few offensive spells. Take GSF: Transmutation if you want your Lower Resistance to work better. And Evocation aids 2 spells at level 6.
12) The Bard; GSF: Enchantment suits them well, Evocation is nice too, but you might want to improve their only 2 Necromancy spells (Horror, Wail o/t Banshee). You probably won’t get around to Transmutation, those spells are OK too. Elemental feats aren’t that useful.
13) The Ranger is almost like an inferior, combat oriented druid, like what the paladin is to the cleric. But it has a few unique spells. Take similar Spell Focus feats as the druid. But rangers have no Necromancy, and have little use for elemental feats.

So in conclusion, I propose to put 3 drow clerics on the frontlines, as battleclerics. It looks really ugly, but I haven't thought of a rational powergaming criticism for not doing this. That's why I started this poll.

 

Improved Invisibility is broken. IMHO it's way too cheesy to consider. I guess playing HoF is an excuse for using it. But you know by now what I think of HoF.

 

Patcher version is pretty fair IMO.

Or do you find something bugged about II besides AI-breaking effect of the unpatched version?

 

Some sort of Paladin mix in.

 

I tested a few rogue and bard builds by creating them and cheat-leveling them up - kind of like a sneak peek... I tried human, tiefling, halfling and female drow for both. A few things I noticed:
A human ROGUE/bane1/barb1 can also hide, relieving my rogue2/wizardX of 2 skill duties... Tiefling rogue was mediocre, nothing special. Halfling's -2STR ruins it's purpose, as Caradhras said. After a while, the rogue really runs out of useful feats to take, so I ended up taking mediocre feats like Discipline and Heretic's Bane. The Drow Rogue really stood out: It has both SR and Evasion+reflexes, so it gets a double layer of protections. A mix-in of Bane will improve her will save considerably too, making the Slippery Mind feat work better. Because Drow can't take a level barbarian, she's limited to Simple Weapons and Longsword, meaning it's worthwhile to spend those leftover feats on weapon proficiencies.
On to bards: Human bards get some skillpoints to Bluff with - BTW are there conversations where I'd need Diplomacy and Bluff at the same time? A human could take a 2-level rogue mix-in to acquire Evasion, and bards have good reflexes to make it work. Again mixing in a Bane level can improve their poor will save. A drow bard with a level Banite looked nice too, with its +2CHA, but they can't get Evasion, and have few weapon choices (yeah I know they should be casting/singing). They do need all their feats, though. GSF:Enchantment, then Evocation, then Necromancy, that's 6 already. They won't be able to fight well even if they needed to. The bards got their level 8 spells (Wail o/t Banshee, Mass Dominate) at bard level 26-28 I think, so they really do have medium level spells throughout the game...
My biggest concerns about both classes are:
1) they get 2 less hitpoints per level.
2) they need to advance in STR/CHA to be effective at what they do. Do bard songs get boosted in DC by charisma?
3) What they do (Sneak Attacks / Enchantments&Songs) isn't always equally as useful - when a battlecleric's attack spells are useless, he can buff, heal, and fight.
4) Bards and rogues will always have low fortitude and will saves. Clerics get low reflex saves, but the SR compensates.

Naturally

I think human and drow, either rogue or bard, would possibly fit in. So would another human sorcerer. But having 3 drow clerics doesn't seem too bad either: a LN Banite enchanter, a LG LathanderX/Paladin1 w/GSF:Evocation, and a CN Talos w/GSF:Evocation and some bard mixed in... If I made CHA a dump stat, the Tymora's song should still work, because it's like a buff spell. Identify works with 1CHA, and who cares about that single level 2 spell I can't use? Again, does anyone know if CHA improves offensive bard songs? The Talosian isn't as good as the first two - they get quest bonuses.

 

I liked the old Improved Invisibility. Once you aquire it, you could basically take on 99% of enemies without getting hit . The patch balances it out nicely though, as it DOES get a little boring when the enemy just stands there while u lay into him

 

You voted, so I'll try a BARD

Well, for a long time I saw a Stormlord of Talos / bard 5 (mix-in later) as the most fitting team member for my party. It was because I like melee so much, even in HoF mode. But then it struck me that this is the only character in my party that can't get a quest bonus. The build is very strong, but doesn't add to the versatility of my party, which is the focus of writing my guide. Having the bard mix-in with a battlecleric means I don't often use songs.
Thieves, bards and sorcerers would make a good addition. The sorcerer is the strongest, but I already have one, and besides extra spells, it adds nothing to my party. Thieves aren't versatile to use, they require certain conditions for their sneak attacks to be effective, and aren't always useful (in HoF).

Most people voted for the bard... its unlimited buffs with songs are very tempting. And since I tend to travel a lot before resting, it really suits me. For a long time I considered and rejected a bard over and over, I remembered their armour & spell failure dilemma, considered that they get to level 8 spells at bard level 26, their need for 6 Spell Focus feats, their great songs, weapon choices, etcetc.
The fact is, that a 3rd battlecleric adds only more strength to the team, while I'm supposed to be aiming for versatility. A dedicated bard adds much more than a mix-in could, so I'm going to try it. I can use the songs immediately (instead of at cleric 16 / bard 5), and test how it balances.
As for the race, I'll have to go Human, mainly for hitpoints. It will eventually multiclass into a (N.Evil) BARD X/Dreadmaster 1/Barbarian 1/Rogue 2/Fighter 2:
16-18-18-3-3-18. Skills go to concentration, bluff, and a point in Use Magic Device, to activate it. Maybe more UMD if it's handy. I'll take intimidate with my barbarian level later. My bard will become a better bluffer than my sorcerer will be a diplomat... BTW do conversation skill checks not exceed 20, like many rogue skill checks?
Dreadmaster to improve its shoddy willpower
Barbarian for proficiencies and speed
Rogue for Evasion (can't take monk - they're lawful)
Fighter very late, for 2 extra feats.
Being 4 levels behind is slightly mitigated by being a non-ECL human, and having 3 ECL party members up front.

I looked carefully at the bard's spell repertoire, and it's able to relieve my sorcerer of certain spell duties, especially buffing tasks. There's still an Iron/Stonskin shortage, but that's due to my gameplay. Thankfully my modded druid can chip in. I was surprised bards didn't get Chaos - it seemed like the model bard spell. Emotion: Hope is great at level 3. Invis. Sphere, Magic Circle, Impr. Invis., Mass Haste and Mass Invisibility are what make it shine - I didn't cast these often enough with my sorcerer, because they cost me in offensive spells. Now my sorcerer can blast away.
I expect spell availability will be disappointingly slow in the beginning, so I'll just buff outside of combat, and wear heavy armour + shield and sing in combat. Later, when bards get offensive spells, hopefully I'll have got some good armour with little to no spell failure chance...

I'd like to thank everyone who voted, you can still vote, because I'm in the testing phase of this character. I expect my new guide will be complete by the end of the month.

 

Can you post the link to your full guide?

There are a couple things here that you're talking about that seem fundamentally wrong.

1) How are you using your bard? Are you taking the bard up to melee? I hope you enjoy having him walk up, whack things for EXACTLY one round, then start singing again for 1 round. Or you can leave him in the back, pop off 1 spell, let the AI switch back to singing. Which means you don't need Str maxed. Dex is only there if you want a back archer. Con is optional, depending on how carefully you play.

2) Why are you stacking on Str to a Rogue? Are you trying to create a character that sneak attacks with a Greatsword? If you're trying to assassinate casters with sneak attack, then the sneak attack damage should quickly outstrip your standard damage. Just keep Str at 10, max Dex and use Weapon Finesse so your reflex saves and AC stay high. Mix in monk for AC and an opening stunning attack then switch to small blades for follow up sneak damage.

3) Are you creating a HoF mode party or following Caradhras advice and creating a normal party? If you're following Caradhras, seriously, get rid of all the fancy multi-classing.

4) How do you intend to use the rest of your party? I'd like to read your guide to find out for sure but here's what I'm guessing:

F Drow Lathander X/bard 5 - No idea what you're aiming for here.
F Drow Bane X/Fighter 4 - Battle cleric
Deep Gnome Rogue 2/illusionist X/... - Decoy
Human Sorceress X/paladin 1/... - Nuker
Human Monk 1/druid X/... - Decoy??

Your intended play style could drastically change any comments or suggestions made here.

 

You get extra damage and a much better chance to hit with a high STR, especially with a two hander that can reach enemies who are not directly next to your Rogue. Backstabbing is not that effective in IWD2 but Flanking can be awesome if you care about micromanagement (all you have to do is keep switching targets and that's where a two hander with its longer range is useful). Besides high STR helps a lot if you have to continue attacking the same enemy, if it comes to that you can still dish more damage with a two hander and high STR than with a small blade, average STR and weapon finesse.

Link for coineineagh's guide. I agree that there is too much multiclassing going on for a powergaming party (multiclassing has quite the opposite effect when it goes too far). I don't think taking a Ranger level or a Dreadmaster level just for minor bonuses is worth the trouble. Besides having a caster taking 4 Fighter levels for Weapon Specialization is rarely worth it (unless what you really want is a Fighter with some minor spellcasting abilities and as fun as it can be that's certainly not a powergaming option).

 

Caradhras obliged. I'll repeat that the guide contains a major error - a lawful bard mix-in.

I already said that there's an issue with my old bard mix-in, because i often revert to melee. So I don't use the bard to his full potential. But the CLERIC/bard 5 was a good melee character. About DEX, it improves her reflex save, which she needs for Evasion to work well. I couldn't do without maxed CON; decoys do get pelted with arrows... I didn't max out STR, but 16 is decent enough just in case. I just hope it suits my play style; with only 2 warriors (battleclerics), I have a lot of weak characters in my party now...

I'm creating a party that should be versatile enough to work in both. I mentioned earlier that I'll be putting more emphasis on timing mix-ins as late as possible (many mix-ins won't be taken till I get to HoF), because I came to realize how crippling they can be in normal mode.
Caradhras, when my clerics get really high level, one of them will take 4 levels fighter, to get some more melee damage. Later on your spells don't progress much, and it becomes worthwhile.

Short answer: Try to get into the class-defined roles more, but keep some versatility in there from the start. I'll be writing about these 6 characters, in normal and HoF:
-18-18-16-5-18-5 LN F.Drow DREADMASTER X / Fighter 4 (last 3 fighter levels late, but I personally intend to get Bastard Sword specialization at cleric 16/fighter 4 - she's a battlecleric after all.)
-18-18-16-5-18-5 LG F.Drow LATHANDER X / Paladin 1 / Fighter 2 / Wizard 1 (fighter and wizard levels when 2 quick feats are preferred over leveling)
-12-20-18-18-5-1 NE Deep Gnome Rogue 2 / ILLUSIONIST X / Dreadmaster 1 / Ranger 1 / Fighter 2 / Wizard 1 (ranger optional, for my play style, fighter and wizard late, for 3 feats)
-18-16-18-3-18-3 LN Human Monk 1 / DRUID X / Ranger 1 / Fighter 2 / Wizard 1 (Start with WIS AC bonus & Evasion, dual-wielding optional, quick feats late)
-16-18-18-3-3-18 LG Human SORCERER X / Paladin 1 / Monk 1 / Ranger 1 / Fighter 2 / Wizard 1 (for saving throws, Evasion, dual-wielding[personal preference], and quick feats, respectively)
-16-18-18-3-3-18 NE Human BARD X / Dreadmaster 1 / Rogue 2 / Barbarian 1 / Fighter 2 / Wizard 1 (multiclassing later for willpower, Evasion, speed and quick feats, respectively)

 

I'm not a HoF player, but as far as I can see Bastard Swords aren't that great in IWD2. Have I missed something?

 

The answer to that would be YES. I looked up an old post of mine for you. I understand you don't like to hear about spoilers, and you're not a HoF player. If you choos not to read this one, you'll just have to take my word for it

 

@coineineagh: what you don't get is that I've been playing IWD2 for years. This thread is not for new players, it is about creating the "best" (in the powergaming sense) party. So posting this as a spoiler to spare my sensitivity is pretty useless. Regarding the nature of the spoiler, it has to do with a mod which IMHO doesn't improve anything but causes imbalance. Bastard Swords in Vanilla are useless, they become overpowered with this mod. So taking any proficiency points for Bastard Swords in the unmodded game is not a powergamer's choice, far from it.

 

Yeah well, I still name items in the spoiler, so players who want to powergame in their first run-through, whether they mod or not, will know names and qualities of the swords. So I think it was wise to hide it anyway. Also, only the two main-handers i named in the spoiler are beefed up by the mod component, the rest stayed the same, I think. So an unmodded main hander, and the best off-hander I mentioned, is more than a match for two-handed weapons.

Hey, another thing I noticed, was wizards feats: "* Recieve a bonus feat every five levels in addition to all character classes every three levels."
They forgot to mention: Plus an extra feat at level one!!!

You guys can probably guess which builds get a 1 level wizard mix-in...
Late in game, of course, just like the 2 fighter levels.

3 quick feats: Mmmmmmmmm, cheeeeese

 

Late game what is the point? Your characters will already have all the good feats (which are limited in number).