Joe the magic Plumber, your average Joe or a campaign surrogate?

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It's about this guy, who was mentioned in the presidential debate so frequently:

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Simple Question, aside from his apparently unspeakable name, what is it about Joe the Plumber who appeared so suddenly in the campaign - your middle-class, blue collar, white American who aspires to take over his bosses company - but can't under Obama's tax plan!?

As if the narrative wouldn't be enough, there is what he says

• Who knows Obama won't arbitrarily change taxes (and tax us all into poverty!)
• We know John McCain but we don't know (the real?) Obama
• He tap-dances a lot, like Sammy Davis Jr.

Which makes him to me a hot suspect for a GOP campaign plant.

Anyway, your views.

 

He's just a dude they both met on the campaign trail who didn't ask for all this attention. Turns out he doesn't have his plumbing license and isn't even registered to vote, so neither candidate found out much about him before dropping his name so gratuitously. There's nothing to this, really. Both candidates needed a human face to illustrate to their policies. What better way to highlight who's more in touch with the average Joe than by, in fact, pandering to Average Joe himself?

 

... wouldn't there be the silliness of replacing Joe six-pack with Joe the plumber, one buzz-word with another, but the benefit probably lies in Palin only having to memorise one new word.

 

The guy is a Republican "plant." He does not own a business, nor is he in the process of buying one, as he claims. His income is nowhere near the 240,000.00 tax bracket that would cause his taxes to go up under Obama's tax plan. In fact, his income is low enough to put him among those who are receiving a tax decrease. So what is the guy complaining about? Why would Mac mention the guy 21 times during a debate? Why is every AM radio station trying to make him appear a victim of "socialism" under Obama?

Because he is angry, middle-aged, white, middle-class (income between 40-50K last year), and from Ohio. Perfect demographic that the McCain campaign needs to have in their pocket to have a chance to win. He is the Republican "hope."

 

Really Chandos? I'd thought he was just some dude. Is there an article that explains that? Where'd you get your info? Thanks.

Looks like I may be the lone "he's just some guy" vote in this poll.

 

And he owes over $1,000 in back taxes - he would actually benefit under Obama's tax plan. While there is no proof that he is a Republican plant, it has been suggested. It seems like they vetted this guy about as well as Palin though, so it's totally believable. And I have to add that I know a few plumbers, and while all of them earn a decent living, none of them make a quarter million per year...

Here's the skinny on this average Joe.

 

Not the only one, DR. Until I see proof to the contrary, he's a real guy in my book, but it doesn't change the fact that he's an idiot. How dense do you have to be to fail to grasp the difference between buying a business and profiting from one?

 

The bigger issue that the article calls into question is this: How can a man who makes $250k a year not be able to afford his taxes or the liscence that will enable him to continue his employment after his boss retires? There are many factors that need to be looked at. While any extravagant spending on his part is his problem, how harsh are his taxes? How much is he paying his ex-wife? How much would that liscence cost? What expenses would he have by taking over the business? Are the elevated real estate costs threatening to price home ownership out of his range? These are things that he wanted addressed.

I'll bet that he makes much more money than the average American, and how then would those questions impact them too? Things BOTH parties need to address.

 

Most of those issues on this point are moot, Gnarff, since Joe only makes 40-50K per year, hasn't bought the business yet, and after the government is finished fining his employer, he may not even have a business left to buy. Lucas County requires plumbers to have licenses. Neither Wurzelbacher nor his employer are licensed there, and the national attention is likely to spur local regulators to enforce the law.

That said, licensing as a plumber is more time consuming than expensive. In order to apply for a license, you must have gained 3 years or more experience as an apprentice plumber. Once you have done so, you are eligible to apply and take the licensing exam. During your apprenticeship, you must also have worked under a master plumber and done in excess of three hundred hours of theory work. Since his employer isn't even a master plumber, Joe will likely still need to do his 3-year apprenticeship before applying for that license.

 

I'm not a plumber so i don't know what(if any) financial requirements they have to get qualified.
However, as a general contractor, when you apply for your license or go to renew it you have to submit financial paperwork showing you have sufficent working capital in the bank.
For intermediate, thats $75k in the bank & for unlimited, it's $150k. Anything you owe money on doesn't count(so most people can't use there vehicles or home as an example of capital).
If plumbers have the same type of requirements it may be more difficult to get a license than most presume.

 

I personally find it amusing, that in 24 hours the media has uncovered everything there is to know about him. They are hounding him for interviews and dredging up every bad thing he has ever done or even thought of doing. I take particular offense to their calling his desire to start a plumbing business, a "fantasy". Doesn't this seem to belittle his goals as it seems to imply that they are unattainable?

If only the media could do this type of research on Obama, guys like Joe might feel more comfortable about him.

The most damning thing about the Joe vs. Obama is Obama's quote about "spreading the wealth". Most Americans who work hard have a little bit of a problem with "spreading their wealth to others".

I don't remember who said it and I'm sure I'm saying it incorrectly, but the line went something like this. "A Democracy will fail when the people realize they can vote to take other people's hard work away from them, and then decide to do it."

As to being a Republican plant, that is just plain ridiculous. If he was a plant, wouldn't they have found someone more credible like someone who was actually a plumber, and made enough money, and didn't have such a checkered past? If he is a plant, then I agree nobody should vote Republican for they would clearly be too stupid to govern properly.

 

...And that's what we've been saying....

 

It wouldn't be the first time the GOP has used plants. Think of Jack Gannon.

Yet, I get second thoughts. I concede that there are alternatives that I overlooked, especially the most obvious one, that mere stupidity might have prevailed where I saw nefariousness. I didn't think of Joe being, without putting him down, perhaps just a 'useful idiot' to the McCain campaign. Still, there is something about him that doesn't smell right.

The GOP has succeeded in turning taxation into a wedge issue. It's the GOP 'class war in reverse'. The GOP tricks people like Joe the plumber into supporting the economic interests of people like Rick Davis. Nobody likes to pay taxes, however, Joe's righteous indignation belies his true economic position. When he hears that Obama would be better for him tax wise, he doesn't believe it.

Probably, when he came along, they simply jumped on the opportunity took him and spun him and his narrative relentlessly.

 

Ragusa - I saw "Joe" on TV this morning, and although the newscaster pointed out to him that Obama would not be raising his taxes, he continued to rant on about how unfair it is to tax someone making over 250K, and that his "income bracket would be next" if Obama was elected. The guy stinks. He knows all the Republican talking points, commenting that "we don't know the real Obama," and that he doesn't "stand for anything." Typical for those who are anti-Obama, and pro Mac/Palin, based upon strict ideology.

 

There are a lot of people like that, especially in our neck of the woods, and that doesn't mean he is or they are plants. All it means is he gets a steady diet of Fox News and talk radio and isn't a critical thinker. I still see no indication he's connected to the campaign in any way.

 

He's at least tentatively accepted John McCain's invite to do a few campaign appearances. Whether or not he was connected to the campaign before this all started - and I remain convinced that he wasn't - it seems obvious to me that he is at least connected to the campaign now.

Spoiler

But he's still an idiot.

 

What better spokesperson for their 'message for the rubes' can they get than Joe the Plumber, who knows more about manure than about taxes, but speaks his mind with fervour and conviction?

All they need to do to keep him going is to pat his back and perhaps give him a Blog and invite him to talk radio or Fox News and compensate him for his efforts. Who knows, maybe he'll fertilize the flower garden of American political rhetoric with colourful analogies from his field of work?

 

His colorful analogies will be limited to a few colors; mostly deep brown earth tone colors. LMAO....

If anything the Republicians are trying to use a middle class American who is within the standard tax bracket and show how Obama is viewed since little is known about him, etc... The reality is, this gimmick is silly and in the end Joe the Plumber could end up being Joe the Millionare from all the TV and last minute campaigning McCain has left. So, when it does come time to elect the President, Joe the Plumber, I mean Millionare, will want McCain in office to protect his new found assets.

 

Am I the only one that thinks the real news isn't this rube that caught Obama off guard, but rather how badly Obama was caught off guard and what he said? 'Share the wealth', anyone? Looks like all those claims that Obama is a socialist aren't entirely wrong. This isn't the first hint we've seen of this, either. Now, as I've said, I have no problem with the principle of socialism, just how it's beeing applied today (including Obama's apparent idea of it).

 

Munchkin Blender,
ah darn, I blew it, enrich? fertilize