Michael Jackson RIP

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A tribute from miniclip

 

Prove it. If you feel that he was a criminal, make your case. He was never found guilty of the last crime of which he was accused. In fact, most thought he was just a "celeb target" for a set of overly-greedy parents. Go ahead and research the people who brought the last complaint and let us know what you find. As for the first, yes he did settle out of court, which to me indicates that there was most likely something to the charge. But he was never convicted of any crime, which is why we have a legal system in this great land of ours. At least OJ could not escape the civil suit, which was really a retrial.

As for being a "pop icon" I will say that he was much more than that. He was an one-of-a-kind in popular music, much like a few others (Stevie Wonder and James Brown come to mind instantly). But Jackson was more expansive and transitional in regards to the soul genre: His music was certainly "pop" in the broadest sense of the term, but it was very original. The grooves were sensational, and his lyrics were mostly sensual, without being vulgar. He managed to bring "Soul" out of the sixties and early 70s and make it a "respectable" art form to a new generation. Otherwise it probably would have fallen by the wayside. A lot of hip-hop artists in the late 80s and 90s owe their careers to what Michael accomplished. I'll leave it to you to ponder who some of them are. Further, Jackson was instrumental to MTV in its early days, and it also owes much of its early success to his transitional blending of Soul, dance and electric video, which came together so seamlessly in his work.

I thought it was interesting that my wife came in from work last night and the first thing she asked me was if the "70s were officially dead" for me, since Michael and Farah both passed on the same day? I happened to have my guitar on my lap, and was changing out the strings. My flippant response was, "You know, I've always been more of a Rocker." That made me think of Mick Jagger mouthing stupid lyrics like, "You could make a dead man come" (Start Me Up), the Stones big send up in the MTV Age and how at the same time, Michael was tranforming an entire indusrty with his masterpiece "Thriller." Yeah, Michael was more than just a "pop icon." The proof is in the music.

 

...excuse me while I put on my Sunday-go-to-meetin'-clothes for that post....

The two MJ cases, as well as the OJ murder trial, are excellent examples of financial bias in the justice system. They may not have been found guilty, but that certainly doesn't mean they were innocent.

 

And what's to say MJ would of escaped unscathed in a retrial? Oh wait, i know, he paid them off. 20 Million bucks. No retrial. Read between the lines on that one. Ya don't have to be a genius to figure that one out. Proof? There can never be proof from where either of us sits, we weren't there. But, we have brains and can formulate our own opinoins, as i do now.

Everything you say about his music is strictly your opinion. I have no notions of his music ever being world-moving or earth-shattering. "The proof is in the music"? As i get older and mature, his music has no lasting effect on me. Music is not the answer to my life. Maybe yours, good for you, i hope you enjoy it and get statisfatction from it.

Maybe i'm predjudiced against what i view as child-molesters as i have a 20 month old and another a couple of months away. To even think that anyone could do anything to harm them in such a disgusting manor sickens me. That's why as i reflect on where this thread has gone, i believe Rabbit is probably right in saying he was "Sick", not evil.

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You to Rabbit, no hard feelings here.

 

Well, that's obvious. Whose would it be?

I've played music almost all my life and I have played professionally. Music matters to me, at this point in my lfe, much the same way that sports matters to some others. All forms of sports could end tomorrow and I pretty much wouldn't really give a crap. But music is not "THE ANSWER." Nevertheless, if you should discover the "QUESTION" we can see if it works out.

I pretty much covered that in my previous post as well. I also covered OJ being found liable in the civil suit, which means that a jury found him legally responsible.

I have no Michael Jackson CDs in my collection, and I have over 2000 different vinyl and CD recordings, so I guess his music has had "no lasting effect" on me either. I have a few downloads of his songs (out of about 10,000 total tracks that I have stored on my computer, atm). But that does not keep me from appreciating his work. As I commented, I'm really a rocker and I don't listen that much to Motown, Soul, hip-hop, etc. But it's still good stuff, and I listen occasionally and I can acknowledge its major influence on music as a larger art form.

I have three myself - two girls, 7 and 5, and one boy who is 11 months. They are all safe from Michael Jackson now.

Well, yes, he was. But if he was a child molester, he was also a criminal. And someday we may know the real answer, or at least the details of what happened. He was certainly mentally disturbed. In the meantime we can only surmise about his "crimes."

 

I didn't care much for Michael Jackson's music or achievements. But I was appalled to hear what he did with kids at his ranch, and even more disgusted that his wealth, fame and popularity managed to save him from convictions. He wasn't just a paedophile to me, he was an insane man who stood above the law.
I understand that it's not nice to speak ill of the dead, but my contempt for this person overrules etiquette. Everyone knows he was a child molestor, even though he never got convicted. I will speak ill of any dead paedophile, and will feel no shame in doing so.

 

If you guys want to chew over an un-proved case that has already been torn up and down like wet newspaper then start a new thread. This one, like many other RIP threads on here is to about him RESTING IN PEACE. Please can you respect that and take your concerns over his personal life, insults, jokes and b****ing to a different thread where you aren't going to upset anyone who wants to pay their respects to his memory?

 

My thoughts exactly. Thanks Silvery.

 

Take the good with the bad Silvery (and everyone else for that matter). If someone posts a RIP on a controversial person, and it's been done several times, you will get both sides. If you can't deal with the negative then don't read the thread -- if you want a 'let's have a be nice to MJ now that he's dead thread' feel free to start one, but don't be surprised if someone hijacks it.

 

I would have thought that people on here were adult enough to be respectful and to respect other people that may be upset over the death of MJ. Obviously I was wrong

 

It has nothing to do with "adult" or "childish" -- grief is best done in private or with people who feel the same sense of loss.

In public, express your grief but don't be surprised at another person's glee.

 

If Gary Glitter died, and a RIP Gary Glitter thread appeared here, you'd expect the flaming

 

Silvery, it's not about disrespecting you in anyway. Your always so nice and upbeat! But, what i don't get, maybe i'm dense, but how do people honor him, even if he is dead? What's to honor? Any contribution he made to music does not make up for what he did to kids. Not even in the least. Why honor him??? I'm kinda glad he passed. I would never wish him any harm in a vengeful way, but at least now he can't harm any more kids. Again, honor him? I'm sorry, but I just can't.

 

It occurs to me to wonder how survivors of sexual assault or abuse, particularly those who were minors when they were assaulted or abused, feel when they see the lionization of MJ.

Which I bring up not to encourage people to say more mean things about MJ, but because it seems to me it's more complicated than the arguments presented upthread, which amounted to 'respect the grieving and their grief', would have it.

 

I now see the RIP threads as kind of like a funeral. Even for a really horrid person (and I'm not necessarily saying that MJ was one) I would not go to that person's funeral and bad mouth him in front of the people who cared for him. Were I to do that. it would merely say that I lack class and wouldn't reflect poorly on anyone but me.

On the other hand, in times past I know I have insulted people hardcore in RIP threads. In the case at hand, though, there's quite a bit of doubt as to what really and truly happened at Neverland. Seems to me a lot of money grubbers were willing to do whatever it took to get their hands on the $$. On the other hand, I have 3 little girls and anything even closely approaching pedophilia nauseates me. But there are very few people I hate so much now that I would shred them on the day after their death.

 

Based on RIP threads in the past I don't think it's even close. The person who died doesn't even get all the negative comments. Takara used to post these a lot until someone called him a ghoul for doing so.

 

Be that as it may, there have been repeated, polite requests in this thread for you and others to simply lay off and, barring that, start a new MJ-bashing thread if you absolutely must talk smack. I guess I just don't understand why you insist on justifying doing the opposite when it obviously isn't welcome (to the majority of this thread's participants, anyway). I do agree with LKD that RIP threads do serve as a funeral of sorts. And just like a funeral, people have a choice whether to be reverent, or to go out of their way to upset the attendants who just want to remember peacefully.

Oh well. /me shrugs, leaves.

 

Please DR, show me a post -- after people requested to "lay off" -- where I did any MJ bashing.

If you want a new "kind RIP post" rule added, then PM Tal and have it done. I don't really care one way or the other -- but I will argue for people having the right to express themselves in a manner which is not against the forum rules. If comments about a contraversial figure are going to affect your karma in a bad way -- then stay away from the thread.

 

You didn't keep bashing after the requests, but you did argue that you were justified in bashing, which isn't much different. There's no need for a rule change, since RIP stands for "Rest In Peace." I would think polite remembrance or the application of the "if you can't say anything nice..." rule would be the obvious course for one to take, and we really shouldn't have to ask people not to be rude. Had the thread been "Michael Jackson is Dead," or "Michael Jackson: RIH (Roast in Hell)," you'd have a point.

Check the Alley for a new thread.