When you see a white cross on the road side...

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LMAO - if we're talking about the tween years, I think that's true of a lot of guys.

True that - we all got here the same way.

 

On that, you are correct.

 

I don't think that's true. Both in the "most people realize" (most people are stupid and can't seem to understand the cause-affect relationship) and the "lowering their situation" comment. People who plan to have children don't see a lowering of their situation at all. Sure, there are things you must forego in order to be a good parent, but overall I'd say my condition is improved by my kids (albeit, they may be shortening my life...).

 

I guess you have to define "condition" or "situation"-- if you are talking about financial condition, then kids will have a serious impact on that -- the little darlings COST.

In terms of lifestyle condition, well, that's a really subjective area. Of course you can't go out clubbing as much, your "spur of the moment" decisions drastically decrease, your socializing opportunities change from parent centred activities to child centred activities. Some women love this sort of thing. Nothing makes these women happier than forcing their husband to give up the things he loves for the baby she bullied him into (uh oh, a little LKD bitterness and misogyny seeping through there )

I'm being a jerk deliberately there. In truth, I think mature people who have a baby (both husbands and wives) know that it will be a drastic change, but they want the change. The joys of family bonding, watching the child grow, being able to guide and direct a new life in this world, and such emotional rewards more than compensate for the material and self-centred things that parents sacrifice for the sake of their children. This is why teenage pregnancy is so hard. In many* cases, the teen is simpy not ready to make those sacrifices -- it's too early in life to do it.

In the case of parents who lose their child to the selfishness of another, such grief can find strange (to those of us who have never experienced such loss) outlets, including roadside memorials, "shrining" the rooms of the child for years, weird focii on dolls or other peoples' children, etc. In the case of private roadside memorials, as long as it doesn't distract drivers and put others at risk, I see nothing wrong with it. if they want to privately put up a cross, or a Star of David, or whatever, I believe others have no grounds for being offended. If they are, they have WAY too much time on their hands.

*but not all, some teens deal with it well. I don't know stats buit I would hazard not bloody many. But to be honest, some adults don't deal with it as well as they should either. That's for another thread, thoough.

 

I think in all objective criteria, having children worsens your situation. Of course, the cost is generally considered by almost everyone to be worth it in the subjective criteria, especially those immesurable, undefinable bits that are the most important.

 

What objective criteria? Such negativity about having kids in this thread! Kids aren't THAT bad!! My life is way more interesting since I became a Dad! And I'm not really any worse off financially, because I wasted a lot of money on rubbish before I had a kid. I reckon I have MORE money now than I did pre-kids (because I have less time to spend it).

 

Having the title of "Dad," especially when you hear it spoken outloud, elevates most any "situation." But no need for envy, NOG.

 

Of course you do. You get more than a standard deduction if you have two kids, and then there's EIC. The last time I did the math, EIC paid out almost as much as taking care of them actually costs me. Coupled with the larger deduction, I think I actually come out ahead. I give my little tax deductions a great big hug every night.

 

Drew, a newcomer to the board would not be able to tell you are joking. "My Little Tax Deductions" -- that's the funniest damn thing I've heard all week! I think when you factor in medical costs, school fees, toys, clothes (that the little darlings grow out of in 6 months) etc, you come up with a net loss in the money department.

But the happiness department? No contest, there's nothing like having your kid come in, grab your eyelid, and say "you awake yet, Dad?" They are awesome. I'd give up any amount of financial success to have mine live with me again.

As for objective measures, I wonder if there's any studies out there. I would bet that people who have kids end up scoring higher on all sorts of metrics in later life.

 

Objectively, being a father has apparently brought about a dramatic upturn in your use of exclamation points.

 

Translation please? I have no idea what you're talking about. What deductions? What is EIC?

 

If it's just a 3.5 km road that leads to a hill overlooking the a great city scape... why not? I've seen a number of these here. Mostly it's cyclist who lost their lives when they lost control during freewheeling down this road at 65kph. In a way of speaking, you can say that the cyclists loved that road. I think it's hard for you to understand but being a cyclist who frequent that place, I see it that way for that particular place. Those memorials also serves as a reminder to ride safely. But of course, that is kind'a special case.

 

I usually think: "I'd better be careful; this might be a dangerous bend of road because someone had a fatal accident here". So I think they serve as more of a grim warning than a memorial.

 

Well, I guess you can include that as well.

 

On my taxes as a married man filing jointly, my standard deduction is about $11,000 -- meaning that my taxable income is automatically $11,0000 lower than what I actually make. I then get to take an additional tax exemption for the people in my household, which reduces my taxable income by another 12K or so. Without the kids, it would be about half that. Given my current income, this reduces my taxable income to somewhere around $10,000. Given my low tax bracket, the government takes only a modest portion of my taxable income, but that is fully paid for (and then some) by the $6,000 or so I get in EIC -- the earned income tax credit. Americans with children who earn less then 42K or so per year (my wife doesn't work, so I qualify) receive this benefit. After all is said and done, the government ends up paying me at tax time -- often to the tune of 4 or 5 thousand bucks. Without my kids, I wouldn't qualify for this benefit at all, and a larger portion of my income would be taxable. I'd come out owing just like everyone else.

 

Holy moly. That sounds like the world's most elaborate tax system. Our tax system goes like this:

I earn some money each fortnight. A percentage of it gets taken as tax. I get the rest in my bank account. The end.

The administrative overhead of the American system must be mind-boggling.

 

HB, you don't have to file once a year? Taxes come out of my paycheck every week, too, and I never got a refund before I was married. I was just detailing the internal complexity of our system, and what happens when I file my taxes. Most Americans don't understand deductions, exemptions, and the like -- to them, they're just lines on their tax forms or something their accountant handles. The only real difference for me is that I actually happen to know what all those lines are for. I'm not doubting that your system is simpler; I'm just wondering if we're talking about the same thing.

 

Let's make a tax for roadside signs, then! What a great source of revenue!

Seriously, I don't know if I mentioned this, but here we have a coffin symbol put up by the government to show that a fatality happened at a particular intersection or location. The purpose is not really to memorialize the victim (there's no name) but to warn people that this place can be dangerous and citizens should pay attention to what they are doing.

 

In a similar gesture with what LKD mentioned, the "coffin", some of our local government had put up a large signboard warning people to drive safely and a real smashed up car or motorcycle (from previous accidents) displayed underneath the signboard.