UN investigation reveals...

Remove all ads!

It was a political move in a conflict that has seen much worse moves. Hey, if the Palestinians can get Israel to back down without killing anyone, more power to them. Trying to pin all the blame on them - or, for that matter, the Turks - for this one is taking it too far. Yes, it was obviously a provocation. That doesn't mean Israel would be blameless for whatever it does. As Rags noted, they saw it coming. They were told what it was, what the purpose was, and how it would be done.

At the end of it all, the investigation simply showed that the boarding forces used unnecessary force in some cases - and yes, shooting someone point-blank when they are lying down is generally considered to be unnecessary, especially when you are claiming restraint. While it does go against what Israel has claimed, it won't make a big difference. After all, the people are already dead, and while some people may feel vindicated or offended by this report, it won't bring anyone back.

 

Best post in this thread

 

there is no credible evidence, the evidence has been disturbed by countless passers through, totally inadmissable in any court. Ill repeat my "probably why any modern civilized country refused to ratify this annex".

do we need to go into another "freedom flotilla" argument? as several posters argued in that thread, the use of force was not excessive, they didnt fire a shot until several members of their boarding party were fighting for their lives, that is not excessive force, that is self defence. the kid could have been a casualty as a result of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, any soldier knows that if you go into a hostile situation where civillians are present, civillian deaths are possible.
We dont know the circumstances surrounding his death, for all we know he could have raised a weapon to a commando and got put down, I would like to point out that if that is the case and he was executed, that is actually a tactic used by special forces "If his lungs hold breath he is a threat" the SAS are trained to aim for the body and then the head, once the combatant is on the ground to fire no less then 3 shots into the head, this tactic was displayed by the trojan units who shot and killed charles de menzes at the tube station, they put him on the floor and fired multiple shots into his head.

Its just a word they made up for anyone who doesnt fall for the propaganda

yes it was right, but it was also backed up by credible nations like france and germany, in this case, we have an annex which is backed up mostly by arab or israel hating countries.

 

1. A forensics expert disagrees with you. I'll take their findings over your empty speculation. Personally, I think the findings necessitate further investigation, to get to the bottom of what actually happened.

2. 'Evidence has been disturbed'? By whom? Oh my goodness, you're not implying that the IDF would tamper with the evidence, are you? Perish the thought.

Or perhaps you're postulating that the brown A-rabs used their mystical mind powers to shift the location and orientation of the bullets in Dogan's body, in order to make it appear as if the IDF had shot him while he was defenseless?

But seriously, had the evidence been tampered with, then the forensic expert would likely have stated that circumstances were inconclusive. Apparently there was enough ballistics and autopsy evidence remaining to make a conclusive interpretation.

Self defence? Hahaha, next you'll be claiming that the Israelis on occupied territories who bulldoze homes and beat Palestinians are merely defending themselves from the native, legal inhabita... oh, wait... um, yeah. I've just realised how pointless this discussion is.

How many people on the flotilla were Palestinian?

Anyway, it's a well known fact already that the Israelis are bullies. Luckily for them, they only bully the mud people. If they did what they are doing now to white 'civilised' people, they would have faced a similar fate to what they bestowed on Lebanon (ie. saturation bombed into submission.) Christ, America invaded two nations (full of sand-niggers, naturally) over far less.

Let's face it, white countries like Israel and the U.S need a doormat, and that doormat just happens to be brown people.

 

Sad but true. And that's why stuff like this will continue to happen.

 

Was anyone else aware that Turkey was so well known for collecting and analyzing forensic evidence? Maybe the FBI should consider outsourcing their crime lab.

 

That would be China.

 

entertaining isnt it, I also find it entertaining that the organisation who caried out the report is dominated by muslim countries which hate israel.

 

Actually, that is basically what I am saying. It's not the only way that the Israeli's deal with protest, but it is one of their ways. In that neck of the woods, force is used quite frequently. It's why people tend to not protest in China -- the Chinese have no compunctions about killing protestors who become obnoxious. It's not right, it may not be fair, but people going into it have to know that they are taking their life into their hands, and that eventually their "defiance" could cost lives. This kid was one of many who gambled that they could thumb their noses at the Israelis, and he lost that gamble. I feel very little pity for him, but that doesn't mean the Israelis are in the right.

 

That "neck of the woods?" Don't make me laugh, LKD. I might fall off my chair. Until recently that's how is was here in the US. I was just reading this account the other day:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129933195

 

A UN investigation reveals...

...that I'm dynamite in the sack.

Oh, UN.

 

Now that doesn't reflect all that positively on Israel, doesn't it.

It puts them in company of those other countries that also routinely 'burn' protesters. Think Iran. Or China. Or Burma.

Hardly a badge of honour.

 

I never said it was a badge of honor. I never defended this particular killing, or said it was justified. Even if the guy had been an enemy soldier, if he was unarmed and defenseless, it would be a crime to execute him as they did.*

What I did say was that it's not a surprise and the kid knew he was doing something dangerous against opponents who have been known in the past to do stuff like this. Of course it doesn't reflect well on Israel.*

*assuming that the data is true -- the reliability of this sort of thing is always suspect, especially given the number of Israel-hating countries in the U.N. who push this crap through.

 

Shoshino,

Where do you take that fantasy of 'muslim domination' from?

The UN body tasked with investigating i.e the fact finding mission of the Office of the High Commissioner on Human Rights is not 'dominated by Muslim countries'. That's utter nonsense. From the article

I fail to find Muslim domination in the set-up, agenda or methodology of the investigative group.

And the UN General Assembly is not 'dominated by Muslim countries' either. It is just silly to say that. The UN has 192 member countries, all of which are members of the general assembly. Of the member countries in the UN general assembly only 50 or so some are Muslim countries.

 

And they consistently gang up on Israel. Which is laughable given their own track record, but of course, they are backward dictatorships, so it's OK for them to commit atrocities -- we just turn a blind eye. Yet in the UN they are equals to all other member states, and get to call the kettle black. And we let them, all the while patting ourselves on the backs for being so open-minded and willing to criticize our erstwhile allies. It's no wonder Israel commits atrocities -- no matter what they do people are going to piss on them for it, so they might as well act like <snips> if they're going to be treated like it anyways.

 

Yes, because they have all the oil. You didn't see President Bush give the Saudi King a big smack on the lips? and Obama, the most powerful man in the world, atm, bow to this tyrant? And as much as conservatives complain about the nutcase in South America, note that we still buy his oil and are making him mega-rich. We may talk up "freedom and liberty" but in the end we are a "practical" lot.

 

LKD,
ganging up is something that in practice was last tried against Israel in 1973, before you were born, and it led to a lost war (to an extent; Egypt for their part succeeded in extracting the Sinai and a peace treaty with Israel; they never aimed on more). Since then 'ganging up' was rhetoric.

 

The report wasnt carried out by the UN general council, infact the UN council didnt want the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights to carry out the report at all, as they were carrying out their own report, the pressure for "the mission" came from:

It is also impossible for this report to have examined all evidence as Israel didnt cooperate at all with "the mission" infact all of the 'evidence' came from Turkey, the report recieved no guidence or backing from the council either.

I question the forensic evidence about the kid as it is impossible for a bullet to pass through the face into the shoulder as is claimed that the kid was laying on his back, the shot would have had to be fired into the top right of the head.

 

Shoshino said in a quote, which I will re-quote:

Emphasis mine. The enemies of Israel, most of whom are Muslim, have effectively hijacked the U.N. when it comes to crap like this. They constantly seek to vilify Israel. I find it hard to take them or their supporters seriously.

 

Boo hoo hoo.

"Anyone who criticizes Israel is anti-semitic, and therefore we should automatically disregard what they say as biased. Only the United States (land of glorious noble defenders of the realm) and Israel (home of the Chosen People [TM]) can be trusted."

Do you realise just how willfully ignorant the above sounds?