How many months of probation?

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For all I knew, your ex could have filed a false charge of DV against you, and you lost custody of your kids as a result.

Be thankful you (a man) got custody, BTW. That's a statistical miracle.

Oh, I notice a few people have taken issue with my source. I think you know what my answer to that is (ie. I don't care).

 

I know that you don't care mordea. I wasn't expecting a reaction from you, since I thought that you didn't care.

 

Well, I just wanted to make it very, very very clear to all who were questioning my source that I don't care. I don't want any room for error of interpretation, see!

 

with you following sources like that its no surprise that you have such a misguided view of.... everything

 

I have a hard time buying into a lot of the studies made that show that women are darling little angels and men are vile beasts from the pit of hell because I think that the studies are skewed. Mordea is touching on the frustration that decent men feel when tarred with the same brush as the whackadoos, and then railroaded by women, whose fingers are rarely as clean as those of God (a little "The Crucible" callback going on there).

I believe that it is possible for two mature people to be in an equal relationship and treat each other with dignity and respect, giving what the other needs and getting what they need. There is no need for the man to enforce his wil through physical violence, and no need for the woman to resort to lies, manipulation, and the threat of social stigma to enforce her will.

But that assumes maturity on the part of both people. Too often today, women are encouraged to be "strong" and they substitute "<w>itchy" for "strong". They are not the same thing, any more that "strong" means "physically abusive" for the men.

 

One does not have to be a man to notice this tendency, or to get extremely annoyed by it, trust me.

 

Quite often the same behaviour that in men is seen as "strong" or "assertive" is seen as "female dog-y" or "pushy" in women. There are plenty of studies that show that a 50-50 male/female ratio is in many situations seen as "female dominated" if they are traditionally seen as male spaces - like boardroom meetings, for example. Or speaking out in a group situation.

Now, I don't believe in the "give her a break cause she's a she" thing - because ffs, that is just infantilizing women. I am a firm believer in personal responsinbility, but that does not mean I deny that the society around us is broken when it becomes to gender - expression, expectations, every other way imaginable.

 

Well, being a butthole pisses me off whether it's a guy or a girl doing it. Leaders or co-workers who act "pushy" aggravate me just the same. When women try to excuse their behaviour with the "I'm a strong woman, and you wouldn't have a problem with the disrespectful way I'm talking to you if I were a man" are dead wrong -- I have a problem with it regardless. of the gender of the butthole in question. But women shouldn't get the free pass being discussed in this thread.

 

Yeah, I know what you mean. the problem in general is that people percieve the same thing from a man and a woman differently - which is not always the case but is so too often to ignore when the concept of strong women comes up.

 

It's such a shame that this thread has degenerated into an excuse for silly name calling and ego inflating. It had such potential to be interesting

 

I *know* that they are not just skewed, but horribly biased. Anyone can use the magical art of statistics to support whatever conclusion they want.

However, there are two things to consider here. Firstly, it is quite common to hear of women abusing and killing their children, and getting off with a slap on the wrist. Secondly, there are studies suggesting that women are as abusive (if not more abusive), as men.

Whether you believe this or not, the issue is not as cut and dried as the misandrous media and education system would have you believe, so perhaps people should take a more humble attitude instead of condemning what I say out of hand. Perhaps it's time that instead of people demonising men based on conflicting evidence, we all took a step back and spent that money used to demonise me on determining the truth of the matter.

Oh wait, nahhh. Humiliating men is much easier, and far more fun!

 

Well, when you make it so easy for us mordea you do kinda let the side down

 

Well, I *know* men commit between 90 and 95 percent of all violent crime. It's pretty damned tough to skew statistics *that* much. You can slide a statistic analysis a few standard deviations to a maximum of maybe 15% off, but you can't shift 95% to 50% with any form of statistics -- that requires a significant amount of denial and ignoring of facts. Of course I can point to any of a number of crime reports *world wide* to support my claims. Thus far you've only been able to produce sensationalistic journalism to support yours.

Please enlighten us as to how you can *know* women are just as violent as men. And I don't mean just give a couple of examples where specific women are extremely violent, we've all known women like that.

 

I'm not strongly for either side, but T2, that percentile is convicted of violent crimes, right?

If mordea is right and women get let off easy a majority of the time, they wouldn't be convicted of violent crimes as much even though they might commit about 50% of them.

Purely stipulation here, and if mordea wants to support his point with hard numbers or cold facts, I strongly urge him to.

 

If he could support his point with anything other than ego-inflating posturing, it'd be a minor miracle

 

I would argue that the statistics are there because of the inherent bias. Of course men get convicted more because we make excuses for the women!

An educated man once said to me "when a woman kills her children, it's obvious that she is mentally ill, otherwise how could a mother do such a horrible thing?"

Now I understand the emotions behind that statement and the belief system that feeds it, but it seems to me that that's just a "mama pass" -- when a woman does it, it must not be her fault. When a man does it, it's because he is evil and venal. With such presuppositions in play, is it any wonder that women are convicted far less often and thus the statistics say they don't commit as many violent crimes? It's a vicious circle.

 

Rahkir: Violent crime is violent crime -- reducing the conviction to a lesser violent offence would have no bearing on the numbers. The numbers I usually see are not just based on convictions but rather on solved cases (which would include insanity pleas).

LKD: An argument based on fact rather than emotion would be more convincing.... I've run into a boatload of manipulative women in my life but only a few violent ones -- I have no qualms about saying women are as heartless and cold as men, but just as violent? Not a chance.

 

Fair enough T2. But if more women who simply plead 'not guilty' are found not guilty, when they actually are guilty, it could skew the numbers. For the exact reason you're citing, women are generally less (physically) violent than men or at the very least our society perceives that to be a general fact.
I wouldn't be incredibly surprised if empirically more than 5-10% of violent crimes were committed by women.

I don't have any strong beliefs either way, just putting things out there.

 

Sorry but I'd like to apologise for my comment last night. It was very silly and fuelled by a lot of stress and red wine.

 

So, wait... If you *know* that the studies are biassed, because you *know* what the 'real' statistics are from your book, and yet you *know* that statistics can be made to support whatever conclusion the author wants to support, then how is it that you *know* the author of your book didn't do just that?

Actually, T2, it's not a matter of messing with the statistics themselves. That's falsifying data no matter how much you do it. The real trick is in choosing which statistics you want to report. So, instead of reporting that men commit between 90 and 95 percent of all violent crime, you report that women commit about 50% of premeditated crimes*, or 70% of violent crimes where the ages of the perpetrator and victim are more than 20 years apart*, or... Anyway, the point is that you leave that nasty detail of "all violent crime" off it.

*Like 60% of all other statistics, these are completely made up.