Mostly Missile Party

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I loved this concept in BG1 - get one or two big front line guys, and have everyone else rely on missile weapons to do damage. Mages were not only non-essential to party success, but actually detrimental. (You could live with a bard if you had to, and give him a bow.)

So I'm going to try this in BG2, accepting early on that missile weapons get progressively less powerful as I go through. Obviously, the PC has to be an archer, and if I'm making a mostly missile party, then Mazzy is also non-negotiable. While not strictly an archer, I think one can reasonably make the argument that Valygar could be used for archery purposes, simply because he's not ideally suited as a front line fighter.

Of course, with 3 slots taken, and not even one arcane or divine caster kind of limits my options for the other three spots. I'm thinking I can use Jaheira and Anomen as my melee fighters. Which leaves me with a single slot left. Unfortunately, there's not really anything with the remaining NPCs that really says missile weapon. I mean if I take Imoen (or Nalia) they would of course be equipped with a bow or throwing dagger, but with three better bow users in the party, that's not really doing much. Minsc comes with specialization in bows, but I cannot use him as a bow guy (I mean, come one, if Minsc is in the party he HAS to be a melee guy.)

So then I thought about putting Minsc in the front line, and converting some other character who is typically useful as a melee character into a missile using character - like Jaheira. Would this work at all? I mean, Jaheira could use throwing daggers. So I could give her something like the Boomerang Dagger, and later Firetooth. And there is some benefit here in that, just like in BG1, there's NO arcane magic users in this party.

So the weapon breakdown with be:

Mazzy - Tuigan/Gesen
Jaheira - Boomerang/Firetooth
Then Valygar and my PC have to fight over Heartseeker/Mana Bow/Tarlash/Fire Tooth (the xbow, not the dagger).

I'm leaning towards giving one of them xbows. Probably my PC. I suppose as soon as I save up enough money I can travel over to Watcher's Keep and buy Fire Tooth very early on, even if it is less than spectacular unupgraded. Actually there's something else to consider - the Bowstring of Gond is one of those either/or components, right? You can use it on either Tarlash OR Firetooth, right?

 

You are forgetting Jan. 17 Dex and makes his own ammo, those little skulls that paralyze the opponent. I use them all the time, they are VERY helpful. Or you could give him the L-C-Bow of Speed. There are lots of nice Bolts in the game.... I like to Stoneskin/Blur/Mirror Image him and let him go in first or with the Tanks, shooting at any enemy archers/spellcasters as he absorbs the melee attacks.

 

Firetooth +5 adds only +1 damage/+1 THAC0 vs Firetooth +4.
That makes the +4 version pretty awesome already.

The Bowstring of Gond is used for following 3 items, so you can upgrade only one:
- Darkfire Bow (Gond adds +1 THAC0 and +1 speed)
- Taralash (as above)
- Firetooth

edit:
Keldorn is proficient in Crossbows (2 *)

A great party would make:
- PC Archer (Short Bow: Gesen)
- Mazzy (Short Bow: Tuigan or Darkfire)
- Jaheira (Throwing Dagger) <- also your divine caster
- Jan (XBow: XBow of speed) <- your thief and mage
- Keldorn (XBow: Firetooth)
- Valygar (Long Bow: Strong Arm)

 

The best long bows are Strong Arm (+3 to hit, +3 damage), Heartseeker (+4 to hit, +2 damage), and Ripper (+2 to hit, +2 damage) -- no other long bows add damage, not even Taralash (composite bows add +1 damage no matter their magic plus).

For short bows you forgot Tasheron -- Imoen usually gets this one in my parties, +3 to hit and no ammunition required.

If you give crossbows to a fighter (say Sarevok) and pump up the proficiency points you shouldn't overlook the light crossbow of speed. Otherwise a heavy crossbow or Giant Hair Crossbow will work well until you get Firetooth.

Also don't ignore slings. The Sling of Seeking adds strength bonuses (as does the Sling of Everard, although that's considered a bug) -- Jaheira with a giant girdle can really do damage with slings.

To make the party work well you need to do the first level of Watcher's Keep as early as possible to get the unlimited missile containers.

I'd use Minsc instead of Valygar and give him Azuredge (SK out the long bow for axes -- it just seems more fitting he'd prefer axes). He'll be able to shift to K'logarath later and, more importantly, be ready to use the Axe of the Unyielding as a frontliner.

A good missile party:

You -- Archer, Strong Arm
Mazzy -- Tuigan/Gesen
Jaheira -- Sling of Seeking, Boomerang as backup
Imoen -- Tasharon, Crimson Dart
Minsc -- Azuredge
Party member of the moment for their quest
Then in ToB ... Sarevok -- Giant Hair Crossbow then Firetooth

These party will kill most enemies before they get close. Once the enemies close Minsc with Axe of the Unyielding and Crom Faeyr, and Sarevok with Ravager (in ToB) ....

 

Item description of unupgraded Firetooth:
Firetooth +4:
------------
THAC0: +6 bonus (+4 crossbow, +2 Fire Arrow)
Damage: 1D8+4, +2 Fire damage

that's a pretty good damage addition ^^

By the way your party sugestion looks pretty nice, too.

 

My bad ... I meant Taralash not Firetooth (I was talking about bows after all). Corrected in the original post.

 

My nephew's Stategy Guide shows the Mana Bow for SoA. Did that not make it into the game? I was never able to find it...

 

I never used Long Bows that much, but D Simpson's guide mentions that it should be in a lake in the Forest of Tethir area (ch. 6).

 

Yeah, it's on the southeastern part of the map where you meet Coran again.

 

The Versus Stategy Guide shows it should be found in the De'Arnise Keep, in the Statue room with Frostreaver and the Hammer vs. Giants.

 

I think the strategy guid is mistaken ... it's in a cave in chapter 6.

 

Yea the guide has been confused. IT thinks the mana bow is the elven court bow.

 

Yosh has it right. There IS a very nice bow in the golem room of the D'Arnise Keep - but it's the Elven Court Bow - which isn't bad at all mind you - it is a +3 bow.

Anyway, on the party, I'm viewing Jan/Imoen/Nalia as interchangeable for the purposes of this party. Granted Nalia and Imoen start with proficiency in short bows, and Jan in xbows, but it's not like they're never going to get another proficiency point. So I will have some arcane magic in the party - just because it's too much of a PITA to go through without a thief, and all of the thieves are also mages. I suppose Jan would have a marginally better THAC0, owing to using the thief THAC0 table instead of the mage one.

So I definitely will have Mazzy using Tuigan - very possibly for the whole game. I mean, with that extra attack, I cannot see any bow making up for it in damage.

Jan will start with the Light XBow of speed, but there's no reason for him to stay with that. I guess I could spend money on Tasheron's, or otherwise just wait until I get Gesen. I'll certainly earn that proficiency point by then.

For my PC archer, I'm thinking of dumping the full 5 points into XBows right away. I'll grab a light xbow of crap from a deurgar in Irenicus' Dungeon, and then make an eary purchase of Firetooth at WK.

Then I need to add Valygar to have someone using Longbows. There are a ton of good ones to get, already listed above by T2B, so no need to list them again here.

Then we can have Jaheira with the Sling of Seeking - or Boomerang Dagger - or Fire Tooth Dagger, along with Blackbood, as she is going to have to shoulder a good portion of the fighting.

Minsc can use Azuredge, or alternatively make use of those two proficiency points he has in large bows... which may be the better plan. He's probably going to be using two-handed swords anyway early in the game - Lilacor - and the Slavers quest gives you access to a not too shabby for starting out Composite Longbow +1. I'm going to need money early on for Firetooth, and the Sling of Seeking at a minimum, so if I can pass on Azuredge early on, so much the better.

Now, obviously I'm going to have to close into melee range eventually, and usually sooner than later. What I'm hoping to accomplish is to have most of the run of the mill encounters over before they get close to me. Obviously I'll be doing the Umar Hills as my first quest.

I don't think ammo will be a problem for this if I get to WK fairly early - which I plan on to get my crossbow. I'm pretty sure the case and the quiver are both on the first level, and both can be obtained without activating the statues. If not, it may be a bit more problematic if I don't want to be using regular ammo for most of the game. Once I get the case and quiver, then I will only have one bow, crossbow, and sling that will require any ammunition, and if you trying to provide for two at once you're usually OK. Mazzy will definitely receive the quiver of plenty. At 5 arrows per round so can absolutely burn through her ammo supply. My PC will get the case. I should be able to cover everyone else with what I find.

EDIT: Actually, if I'm doing the first level of WK anyway (minus the ritual), I'll pick up the Crimson Dart too, won't I? That's not a bad option for Jan either.

 

I was just playing BG2, and it seems that the Heartseeker does considerably more damage than the elven court bow. I think one adds strength damage and the other does not as Valygar is using the belt of giant strength that boosts his strength to 19. I'm not far enough yet to have the mana bow.

Take whether or not the bow does strength damage like the composite bow into consideration if your PC archer has 18+ strength. In that case, long bows are better than the short bows, especially when you factor in giving a weekling the Gensin bow or the Tugain bow. That goes double for giving it to somebody like Nalia, who normally is a weak physical damage dealer, but becomes more useful with the Gensin or the other shortbow that doesn't take any ammo but gives a +3 to THAC0. The benefit of another viable archer outweighs the drawback of giving Mazzy a weaker bow.

 

AFAIK only the Sling of Seeking and some weapons like throwing axes get a strength bonus to damage. Composite bows get a fixed bonus to damage, with Strong Arm leading in early SoA. The Elven Court Bow is a longbow IIRC, not a composite bow. I think they only started adding strength bonuses for composite bows in IWD2.

Heartseeker, a composite bow, is my bow of choice against powerful, good AC monsters like dragons because of its THAC0 buff. The Mana Bow boasts magic resistance and is useful as a standard bow for warrior-type archers, who can simply boost their APR to 10 with Whirlwind when they need to. Taralash/Tansheron's I usually give to Thief-mages like Imoen. Mazzy with Tuigan is deadly early-mid game but once she get HLA's she's much more dangerous with Gesen. At that point I usually give Tuigan to Haer'Dalis, who can reach 7 attacks per round with it through a combination of Improved Haste and Offensive Spin (cast in that order, Offensive Spin won't add another attack but will make every hit do maximum damage). I prefer to keep Haer'Dalis in the back row unless I'm fighting something that I need to "burst" down quickly, in order to save on buff spells. Blades also get too many castings of Offensive Spin in ToB, so most of the time he's firing arrows at 4 APR and maximum damage.
I personally am not a fan of crossbows in BG2, especially on non-fighter/ranger/paladin characters.

 

I'm unsure about the strength bonus, but I do agree that Heartseeker is my long bow of choice. Even when you find mana bow, it won't be a damage increase from Heartseeker. In fact, it won't even be a THAC0 increase - I'm pretty sure both are +4.

 

Crossbows are kind of meh until you can get things like whirlwind attack to improve your rate of fire. The other situation is if you get stuff like the pulse, fire, and explosive ammo (BMU ammo). Those will set your attacks to 5 and will make you incredibly nasty but that is a very late game weapon (but wow when you get it).

 

Yeah, the problem with XBows is that they a base ROF of 1, compared to a bow ROF of 2. So no matter what you do, a bow is always going to get one more shot per round. The reason why Fire Tooth is sought after so much is that it's damage rate is high enough that you can compensate somewhat for the one fewer shot. Still, even with grand mastery in xbows and having at least a level 13 archer or fighter, you're still looking at maxing your ROF out at 3 per round, whereas you can get 4 out of any bow, and 5 out of Tuigan.

 

Four out of the light crossbow of speed -- and the damage difference really adds up under improved haste.

 

Aldeth,

Since you are trying to build a missle Party there are 3 Archer Modded NPCs. Kivan(Twice - Kivan Mod and the BG1NPCs in SoA Mod, both mods turn him into an Archer instead of vanilla Ranger), Darian, an Avariel Archer, he has a ToB version as well now and Kiyonne, a Half-Elf Archer, from the Beyond the Law mod.

There is also the Modded NPC Haldimar. He is an Elven Fighter using Bastard Swords and Lonbow. 18(92) STr, 17 Dex, 16 Con. You can add him to the party in the Promenade. He is hanging in one of the inns.