Love This Game: Few Questions

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First played D&D in the early 1980s and lots of original AD&D too. Did a bit of Warhammer RPG, and a smattering of AD&D over the years. Computer gamer mostly over the past decade.

ToEE is the first computer game I've ever encountered that filled a 'wish' I used to have back when I was an active RPG paper and dice group player/DM: to be able to go home and play D&D by myself.

It is a beautiful game, much better than the atmosphere in any of the other BG or ID games I've played so far. The artwork and music are lovely. The focus on tactical sophistication is excellent.

Few questions:

1. Any other Gamersgate buyers here? GG has a 75% off sale on a D&D Anthology collection (BG, BG2, ID, ID2, PsT, ToEE) and that is what I bought. I normally do not have trouble with installation with Gamersgate games, but this time I've encountered a problem, perhaps because it is an "Anthology" and not simply one game.

I am presently redownloading the temporary files to see if I can correct this but my problem is that the game is installed into the Programs(x86) location and I'm having trouble installing the Co8 mod. I would like to install the mod mainly just to get past the "Follower's Overload Themselves" bug that persists even in the patched version of the vanilla game.

My first GG installation resulted in a folder like this:



Despite fiddling with the Properties window for the Installer I am not able to get it to allow me to install the anthology package anywhere except the default Programs(x86) path.

2. What party composition do you recommend for Neutral Good party?

3. Which version of the D&D rules does ToEE run by? As I said, I'm truly old school, so anything newer than original AD&D tends to be a bit obscure to me. I did some gaming with one of the newer rule sets about 10 years ago, but I cannot recall if I bought any of those newer books or not. Even if I did, they are I'm sure buried in one of the boxes in my basement.

More specific questions:
a. Can any class / race be a dual class? A Level 1 Fighter who then switches to Bard would seem to be an excellent character but not sure if that works or not?
b. Are there no multi-class in ToEE?
c. Is there a way to see ranges?
d. Are their penalties for firing ranged weapons at too short of range (without the Point Blank 'Feat' or whatever they are called?)

 

Thanks for the quick authorization on my first thread and quick first reply! Seems like a nice community you guys got here.

Weird. As I describe in this thread over at Co8, I actually made a copy of the game folder and tried installing Co8 mod there. Still no go; same error message actually.

I then noticed where Gaear said in one of the how to install threads that the looting bug was fixed in Patch 3. That is weird cause you'd think the version they are setlling on Gamersgate would include all the official patches, but my followers are certainly overloading themselves and becoming immobilized.

So I thought I'd see about installing the patches manually and at least get the looting bug fixed even if I can't get Co8 to run for a while. However, when I tried to install Patch 1, I got another error message



Almost seems like the Anthology version of the game they are selling on Gamersgate isn't being recognized by the patch installer?

ADDIT: about the different versions of the game. I know WoC would likely much prefer that everyone buy all their books But I wonder if there is a wiki-like page or something that sort of goes over the basics of the rules?

---------- Added 1 hours, 13 minutes and 41 seconds later... ----------

Something of an interim solution I've come to. Quoted from the Co8 thread where I also sought help with this problem (linked above).

 

The game does have something like a built-in mini-encyclopedia that you can use as a reference when you're not sure about something. Also note that the game handles a few things differently from actual 3.5 D&D, mostly for simplicity.

As for actual 3rd/3.5 edition basics, check here.

 

Ah thanks Paracelsi. That wiki is exactly what I was hoping for.

 

Actually no I'm not seeing any guides that are specific to ToEE. This site is pretty complex. Would appreciate a pointer on where on the site to look.

I am of course familiar with virtually everything in the game. But many of the fine details have obviously changed not only between AD&D and 3.5E of D&D rules but also just in how it is represented in game.

For example, I just had my cleric cast Detect Evil in Hommlet. I know a couple NPCs who are evil who are hanging around Hommlet. But I don't get any 'reading' when I stand looking at them or even when I talk to them.

Not sure if that is because my cleric is only Level 2, or because they are not 'enemies' and so they don't register as evil. A guide that would help me to understand these finer details would be much appreciated.

Also, I'm not seeing the 'mini-encyclopedia,' is that a particular interface in the game?

 

http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/ToEE/index.php

 

Yes. IIRC there's a "help" or "about" option in one of the menus that pops up if you save/quit/load a game. From there you gain access to a lot of extra info like what each class gets as it gains levels, combat conditions (flat footed/prone/immobilized/grappled/etc) or all the options available to each character's radial menu and what they do (charging a hostile instead of just walking up to it and attacking gives you a +2 bonus to hit, for example).

 

It is the "?" in the lower right corner of the GUI.
It opens up the -Dungeons & Dragons 3.5 Rules Help- window.
And if you play with the 'Dice' window open, you'll see the actions ( like hit, miss and so on) colored in blue. Those are links so to speak. And if you click the link it'll show you the exact break-down of the cast dices or the feats used.

 

Thank you gentlemen! Your kind assistance has been quite helpful to me in getting maximum enjoyment out of this delightful old gem of a game.

Only thing I don't like: the crashes. Ah well.

Now that I've kind've got a hang of the game mechanics, I've got a *****in' party that is slogging ahead quite effectively. I used ToEEFX to up party size, give max hp, make NPCs humble and so forth. About half way to level three and making good progress in the bowels of the Moathouse.

Molly York, NG human female Fght 1 / Bard 1. Fairly useless at this point, but this is my lead character so I have big plans for her. Never really played much with a Bard. Of note is her 18 Int and 18 Cha. Wis is fairly middling Str and Con both decent in the 13 to 15 range but I do not recall exact. I probably have failed to setup her feats and skills for best long-term min-maxing but ah well. She's cute and dresses nicely and is the standing champion of "longest string of no hits" at 17.

Andrea Griff, NG human male Cleric 2. With a 7 Intelligence he seems to suffer a slight 'speech impediment' but the 18 Wis, 16 Cons, 15 Str, and 12 Dex makes up for it. Just your basic hammer wield.

Brittany Thorn, LG human female Paladin 2, 18 Str and if memory serves 17 Cons, also decent on Dex. Never touches a ranged weapon. With Longsword specialization she is my parties record holder on number of crits, number of kills, most damage etc.

Nancy Nimblethorne, NG, Halfling female Fgt 1/Rogue 1, with a 20 dex, Dodge and Tumble she never seems to get hit at all, which is good cause she's only about 3ft tall.

 

Nice.
But LOL for the Cleric. Reading holy scrolls and preaching complex Dogma is a big No-No for him then.

 

Couple new questions:

1. What determines when it is valid to "Flee Combat?"

I was having this one white-knuckle fight with gnolls and realized I could run away and it worked and I was like *Yeah!* awesome stuff. Nice how you have to evade attacks of opportunity and all that.

. . . however, then I tried to use this to my advantage to . . . um . . . steal some magic items from a particularly fearsome and large adversary . . . didn't work. Snuck up, grabbed some stuff, managed to get away, but then couldn't Flee. Wound up having to defeat all the little bony guys, the medium sized furry guy, and of course the biggest guy squashed everybody.

I generally tend to like playing dead is dead, but no way I'm going to skip save scumming because of (what appears to be) a glaring inconsistency in rules such as that. Back to the previous save with me and I'll come take on the big boy when I got plenty of fire power . . . Level 3 was probably pushing the envelope real too hard

2. Any way (apart from paying the cleric) to get a Paladin back to good standing. As I described in this thread (which I subsequently realized is 7 years old and will likely launch the anti-Thread-Necro fanatics {assuming there are such at CO8} into apoplectic spasms . . .

 

I completed the game many times with different parties. I personally prefer going somewhat heavy on magic and magic item creation, but it is more or less up to you. My latest parties, I had a whirlwind fighter, an archer fighter, a LG cleric, a druid and wizard.

ToEE uses 3.5 rules.

Multi-class and dual-class are pretty much the same thing in 3.5. Whenever you gain a level, you can choose to add a new class. Instead of leveling up in an existing class, you gain level 1 abilities of a second class. When you have multiple classes and you level up, you choose which class to gain a level.

My general advice is to not bother with multi-classing. Multi-classing spellcasters really stunts their growth. Unless you really know what combos of low to mid level abilities from multiple classes you want that is kick ass, I would suggest you avoid multiclassing. Multi-classing in 3.5 is very unforgiving to anyone not knowing exactly what they want to build.

When you have a ranged weapon ready and it is your turn, just mouse over your target. When you are in long range, you should see a -2 penalty to attack rolls. When casting spells, you just move your mouse and it will tell you whether or not you can target your spell there. There isn't really anything that tells you exactly how many spaces to a particular target.

If you have an enemy adjacent to you when you attack with a ranged weapon (at any target), the enemy gets a free attack on you. I think there are also penalties if an ally is between you and the target. I would move your ranged attacker to the side to get a clearer shot.

There is a way to see all of the dice rolls. I forgot what key sequence you press to get it. Perhaps someone else can let you know. I always like to see all of the dice rolls because then it tells you all of the bonuses and penalties you get on every roll.

 

You asked for some party advice for a NG party, so here are my suggestions:

Monks. Besides their unique animations and awesome critical hit moves, their stat dependency works in your favor when your divine casters can buff them to kingdom come (bulls strength, owls wisdom, cats grace, mage armor, etc.) making them great tanks when used properly. And just look at that monk portrait. You know you want your character to have glowing eyes.

Barbaric barbarians. An alternative tank for obvious reasons. Make them chaotic, you'll thank me later.

Rogues. Sneak attacks are nice. Combined with monks flurry of blows they are even nicer.

Druids. Animal companions can take the heat off of your tanks, and druids have some unique spells that surpass clerics of the same level. Call Lightening can be casted once and essentially work as a damage spell for the entire battle.

 

Thanks guys. As is my habit with any new game I love, I tend to play and replay the early portions of it to death in efforts to 'figure it out' and 'optimize.' Usually this leads to me burning out and never actually 'finishing' the game, but ah well, I get my moneys worth.

Skyrim, I must've played that 400 hours and never actually went to more than 25% of the map!

My latest party I've been fiddling with is as follows:

1. Not Co8 (still haven't worked out my instllation issues) but I have ToEEFX running so I have humble NPCs and up to 6 PCs. Game is ridiculous without that humble NPCs thing. On the other hand, humble NPCs makes it a bit too easy.

2. Been trying to get the Bard dialed. Seems like a Human Bard 1+ / Barbarian 2 would be pretty awesome? Just one lor two evels of Barbarian to get the rage and/or cleave since one of the strengths of the Bard is to have all those skill points distributed at level 1.

3. Human Barbarian 1 / Cleric 1+ I tried this with a Kord worshipper and I think he was able to spell cast after Barbarian raging. Didn't work with Obad-hai though.

4. Halfling Barbarian 2 / Rogue 2+ Barb 2 is just to get to the Cleave skill. 20 Dexterity so she can dart around in combat pretty much at will and cleave ability are pretty good combo.

5. Haven't tried this one yet, but I think I'm gonna do a Half-Elf Ranger 3+ / Druid 3+. I think this would be the only one that I'd level up both classes back and forth since you get the spells at higher levels of Ranger.

 

Yeah, there is not a single one PRG're that doesn't suffer from the Party-Remix / Re-Starter syndrome.
Me too.

I usually do a party of 4-5.

My builds are fairly typical. But I mix them between Rolling or Point-buying.

1. Naethre the Leaf -Neutral Elven Ranger. Awesome sniper. And later on after the feat allows to ignore melee crowds. She gets even better.

2. Melody -CN Half-Elf Bard. Tis' my favorite. Classy bard with points into thievish abilities like lock-pick or disable device. I give her the nimble finger feat for that reason. And we spent the rest of the game charming or stealing the pants off of NPC's. A solid substitute for a mage.

3. Krusk -CN Half-Ork Barbarian. Does the Barbarity well. "Me go!' Tank. Barbarian Rage is awesome. More power-output and no domination. Sweet.

4. Thoren the Gruff -CG Dwarf Kleric. Using as Brawler/Healer. Worships Kord. With Domain powers that basically buff him to hell.
Try buffing and watch him swat people like flies.

 

I am having this problem running the Co8 mod. I have a thread over there asking about it, but I figure there might be some guys here who might have insights but who do not visit Co8 forums much.

Basically, by buying the Good Old Games version, and installing in the C drive, I've managed to get the Co8 mod (and TFE-X) to install. I can boot up the game via either the TFE-X launcher or the game shortcut on this laptop with Win 7 Home Premium on it.

However, if both the launcher and game shortcut are not set to run in Win XP SP 3 Compatibility and Run as Administrator, the mouse is frozen.

Having resolved that issue I then created some characters, but when I click Begin Adventure the game crashes to desktop.

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions on how to track down what is happening and fix it? It seems pretty clear that it is some sort of conflict between settings that are being run by this laptop and those in the Co8 mod, so presumably it should be possible to figure out what is conflicting and perhaps changes settings?

A copy of the TFE-X log and my DxDiag and some other details are posted at that thread at the Co8 forums I linked to above.

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Okay I'm now completely bewildered by this machine (my wife's old laptop which has I guess become my machine since I recently suffered a harddrive mortal injury to my long-time gaming machine).

As I have detailed above in this thread, when I purchased the DnD Anthology from Gamersgate, I was unable to install the package of games anywhere except for the Programs directory.

In trying to follow Gaear's suggestions on getting Co8 to run, I uninstalled that whole package (I had created a copy-pasted version of ToEE in the C-drive which I still have and which does run) and then I bought the Good Old Games version of ToEE and installed it and as I describe in the preceding post, managed to get it installed but it crashes.

Having reached my wits end with trying to get Co8 to run, I figured I'd go back to playing one of those other games for a while (BG, BG2, etc.). So I opened up my

CDnDAMasterCollection_Install

And ran the installer as Administrator and lo and behold, it allows me to install wherever I want!?!

I'm bewildered.

 

The problem with multiclassing bards is that some of the best abilities only become available at higher levels. If you want your bard to hit more/harder it's usually better to just give him/her higher str/dex, and then rely on a combination of buffs (like Heroism)/debuffs (like Daze and Grease) and liberal use of underhanded combat tactics (charging, flanking, using 5-foot step to back away so that if your target tries to approach you you and everyone else near your target get to whack him with a free Attack of Opportunity, etc.)

Note that summoned creatures can help you flank.