Seeking some spoiler-free tips for a noob

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What got me interested in skald was largely the immunities. (stuns!)

But that was before i even considered hla

Since I'm not installing mods (yet hehe). I think you're right, a skald pc is kinda pointless in the long run. I'll just keep Hairy for the hla song he should get soonish.

But, my reading got me interested in the 'rogue rebalancing.' mod. Class balance is a big deal where I'm from.

Anyway, back to the kensage.

 

The balancing mods I've seen do just the opposite....

 

The Rogue Rebalancing Mod is pretty well done. Give it a whirl. Adds a few items for Bards and Thieves, nothing over-powered. T2 is right though as most of the balancing mods are ususally over-powered or not well thought out. I really like SCS. I like mods that make "Smarter enemies" and "Calls for help".​

 

I did not say they were not well thought out. When rebalancing, most mods are trying to rebalance to some other class or adjusting the class to be closer to pnp rules (or the author's interpretation of the rules). Often the shift from pnp paper rules was due to game mechanics or implementation of some other aspects of the game (granted, the reason could also be lack of time to write the correct code in). "Rebalancing" also never seems to lower abilities -- automatically assuming the class was substandard and needed correcting.

 

Exactly. Not well thought out.

 

I noticed that with the Shapeshifter rebalancing mod. I didn't realize they were supposed to be as powerful as fighters and immune to, well...everything.


I admit to being somewhat cheesy with it even more than it was intended. Since the shapeshift form is now activated by a claw weapon I dual wielded it with Belm to get 7 attacks per round at 25 STR.

 

I agree with this. For instance they will mod the monk to "more accurately" represent the PnP rules but it will be for 3e and not 2e (which did not have a monk of this type). The problem being that many things don't translate as directly as they try to make in the mods. AS an example monks get SR of 10+level in 3e which is about a 50/50 shot at resisting an equal level caster with no investment into beating SR. Giving that out as MR in BG2 is a real reduction in power and the only reason they are doing it is because of what is written in 3e which has a different mechanic. as another issue they copy the monk's bonus to AC in 3e (+1 per 5 levels) but cannot add the wisdom mod to it so once again the monk is slightly screwed (and if they made it AC 9 instead of a +1 bonus then it won't stack with bracers which would be another nail in the monk's coffin).

The shapeshifter mod is another example or poor balance. The original is slightly weak but the mod one is way too nasty with too few draw backs. Personally I think all you need to do is make all its bonuses stack with equipment, not have it overwrite higher ability scores (so if your con is 16 and you use your werewolf power it does not lower you to 15 con), allow you to use weapons (have fists get the upgraded damage of wolf claws), and get rid of the wolf animation since it is buggy and ugly (ok maybe that part is just me) and I think you have a kit that is worth using. Also let them use basic mage robes I HATE not being to fill an item slot even if it is a weak choice.

Also never use the summon bears from that mod. They can beat entire encounters alone no joke. They will kill you if you make them angry.


Lastly beware the bard. In BG1 you get archery and wands which is fantastic. In SoA you can rock out as a melee threat by using kundane and belm which nets you 4 attacks per round. By ToB you can some gauntlets and switch to the Scarlet Ninja To to get up to 4.5 attacks per round with +3 weapons. You will be relatively weak against demi liches but otherwise you are pretty nasty though it does take more micromanagement than some classes.

I do wish it was possibly to attack physically while singing with a bard (something you can do in later editions but not in 2e sadly darn realists) and to make a new HLA that improved the skald song so it stayed better than the epic bard song (ditto for the jester for that matter). But then we will go down my slippery slope of me giving bards all thief skills (granted they don't get anymore points per level so the thief still totally dominates them but at least you can replace the thief with something else) and where would we be then?

 

One of the reasons why I was vehemently against EE trying to "fix" everything (emphasis on everything) that was supposedly wrong about the games was that their standards were ultimately not about giving the players what the (original) devs thought they really wanted. A lot of the time they were simply trying make stuff work as close to how they should have worked in the PnP version or in the manual (and a sizeable chunk of the manual looked like it was more or less ripped from some PnP handbook).

I did my own research about how the PnP versions of BG2 classes/kits worked years ago (I even found some of that info here at Sorcerer's iirc) and I wasn't too pleased to learn that most of the more popular classes/kits/spells/strategies we use in-game work differently/are nonexistent in the PnP version.

Still, I find it interesting that they didn't bother trying to improve the Wizard Slayer/Beastmaster. These were about the only 2 kits which had PnP versions vastly more powerful than the game versions (high level Beasmasters controlled animal hordes, Wizard Slayers had a 50% resistance to raw magical damage and ignored most protection from normal/magical weapons-type buffs)

I've heard good things about the rogue rebalance mod, but yeah most of the feedback I read about the Shapshifter mod is consistent with what's been said here. IMO the only fix the Shapeshifter really needed was for his Greater Werewolf claws to also grow in power, and perhaps a general stat boost to his forms once the Shapeshifter got to epic levels. That's it. In the end the Shapeshifter is still a druid, and the BG2 druid is easily one the most powerful incarnations of the druid class I've ever played in a non-mmo.

 

Just a FYI, if you play the original BG1 without installing ToTSC, you CAN use a bow or sword while singing. I think the bard stopped if he moved to attack however, so you were better off using a bow. This was patched with ToTSC. Your Cleric will also use his sling while turning undead if the party AI is turned on. I can't recall if he stopped singing if he had to move in order to attack, or if he stopped when switching targets. It was one or the other, but I haven't played without ToTSC installed since I finally got a copy of TOTSC about five years ago. I've had BG1 without ToTSC for over ten years.

I don't know about the modern combination packs or what you can get from Steam or GoG however. I've got the 5-CD version.

 

Weee, SoA beaten.
I thought it would be more difficult, but I may have been op. I failed once on the final fight, then watched a vid of a guy doing it solo with a lvl 1/1/1 f/m/t.
After i won and got some cool cutscenes i screen-shotted the character.
Cheers


D'oh. My alignment changed and I left all of Hairy's items in hell.

 

Congrats!

 

I simply must see that.

 

It'll be cheesy In a speedrun the runner beat SoA in 20mins and finished the final fight with a lvl 8 sorc, I believe. Relying mostly on the slayer form for the damage.

 

here's a link to the level 1/1/1 in the final fight for SoA



How much of this strat is 'cheese'?
I just see clever use of wands and consuming scrolls.

Ignoring the adds is cheesy. Slayer form is legit though imo.

 

No, it's not as cheesy as I would've expected, though with all the high level items it was more of a 1/1/1 F/M/T and his gear. Perfectly legal, though I wonder at the choice of leaving the F/M/T at level 1.

The speedrun makes it a bit cheesier by using Yoshimo (yes, without mods, too), making him use a limited wish spell and wishing for the shapechange ability, then backstabbing everyone in the Iron Golem shape. And if that doesn't work, using Vhailor's helmet to create a double that backstabs from the other side after the first one came out of the shadows and atracts the attention of whoever's left.

It's glorious.

/edit
Just saw that there was a new ToB speedrun. Finished Mellisan in just over 5 minutes. I have no idea what's going on, but it's pretty impressive. It takes longer to read through the notes than it does to watch the speedrun.

/edit2
This is a fantastic glitch:

 

I did not know that. It has been a long time since I have played BG without TotSC. I think I had the game for only a month or so before I got the expansion way back in the day.

 

Why are demons immune to time stop? I cast it during the final battle and found out the hard way.

 

Demons generally aren't, but beings with enough power can resist its effects. Certain notables in ToB in particular, including one at the final battle.

 

That is always shocking when it happens and sadly it is typically in the nastier fights where you can't afford to have most of your party frozen while somebody beats them up.

 

Not that many are.

Spoiler

Demogorgon, Amellisan, and some of the creatures in the fight with Amellisan (not all, don't remember which, either). In all, there's not that many that are immune to time stop, but enough in the last fight that you'll not get much use out of it.