Thieving Skills

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What should you have maxed out by the end of the game, and is more than 100% too much?

 

IIRC, the only skill worth going over 100% for is stealth, as you can get penalties that make you fail even at 100%.
That said, find/disable traps and open locks should be maxed, although I can't recall if you ever need to go over 80 or so in BG1. Maybe for one or two traps in Durlag's tower, but everywhere else you should be fine at 80 or even less.

The rest is up to you, although keep in mind you can reload for pick pocketing, increasing it just cuts down on the aggravation. Also keep in mind that you can use boots of stealth and the one thief's armor to boost your stealth skills, but the items alone will still have a decent chance of failure.
On the other hand you do need all the points you can get in BG1, so relying on the items for most of your stealth might be a good idea. It's really up to you. Often I'll put no more than 30 points into stealth and use the items, but if you plan to do a lot of backstabbing you'll want to achieve a total stealth boosted with the items of at least 100%.

In general I tend to spend the first level (character creation) on open locks exclusively to open the one chest in Candlekeep, and the next level goes fully into disable traps. Level 3 I might start putting some points into pick pockets and/or stealth.
In general, if you're failing to open locks or disable traps (even once), put points in at your next level-up until you get to around 80. If you haven't failed a single time since your last level-up, put points in something else like stealth or pick pockets.
An important exception is if you plan to assail Durlag's Tower before your next level up. In that case make sure you have AT LEAST 80 in disarm traps before going to Durlag's Tower. That map is infamous for its nasty traps that rival everything in Shadows of Amn except Watcher's Keep (which is technically from Throne of Bhaal). You'll want 80 in open locks as well, but a bunch of scrolls of knock might work too for the doors you can't unlock with your thief.
Again, I can't recall needing more than 80 in either open locks or disable traps outside Durlag's Tower, and I'm not 100% sure on that one needing more than 80, it might be that 80 was the magic number for there too.

 

I have a Bard for pickpockets and I did exactly what you said for early levels. Looks like I'll start raising stealth or maybe set traps. Never really explored that skill

 

Sorry, I forgot this was the thread for EE, I'm basing my advice off of the original 5-CD version.

 

NP, Just checking for my open locks and disarm traps skills. I already have them at 80, so time for something new

 

Detect Illusion: Is this ability useful at ANY point in the game?
Set Traps: Worth it or not and what would a good % be?
Hide in Shadows: Can't backstab, so I don't see much use.
Move Silently: Ditto

 

I still haven't gotten around to actually doing a play-through of EE, but based on my experience with the original and with the original BG2, I can think of several times when enemies use the Mirror Image or Improved Invisibility spells that Detect Illusion should be able to dispel (IIRC Silke's one) before you can cast Dispel Magic, and off the top of my head at least two points in the game where a thief will quaff a potion of invisibility to try to backstab you.
The problem is that you need to invest a lot of points into Detect Illusion to have a decent chance of success. That number is supposed to be the actual percent chance each round for Detect Illusion to dispel the illusion, and you must be detecting illusions and not doing anything else useful in combat like shooting a shortbow to dispel the mirror images one at a time when you should be getting 2 attacks per round with the bow and thus dispelling two images per round.

If you take multiple thieves it might be nice to invest in, with one thief specialized in traps and stealth/backstabbing and the other specialized in open locks and find traps.
A natural example of this would be if you choose to play as an assassin, CHARNAME could specialize in stealth and later maybe setting traps, while an NPC focuses on lockpicking, trap disarming, and pick pocketing.

 

Thanx for the info but I only have a Swashbuckler. Like I said, OL and FT are at max as they need be

 

So, that's a no go on the DI (fine with me, least favorite there)
Leaning heavy on the ST
HiS and MS worth it without backstab?

 

I have a Swashbuckler "I can't backstab!" Interesting idea though.
Heh, I just realized that I have 40% MS and 50% HiS from the Boots and Armor.
Is good enough or need a little more?

 

Does MS have any component to what you just said?

 

As the author of a class that only has the detect illusions skill, I can say with great confidence that it is the best skill. Enemy mages hate me because of this one simple trick.

 

For BG1, I've found that 75 in Open Locks and Find Traps is enough for almost everything, although in a few places you'll fail to open/disarm and need to try again (there's a dice roll which effectively gives you a few points more or a few points less at each attempt to open/disarm, so sometimes a 75 wil act like 70 and other times it'll act like 80). I can think of two places where 75 in each won't get you through: one chest in a house in Beregost needs more OL (90 - so 85 and a good dice roll should suffice), and one set of traps (five in a row in a single location) in Durlag's Tower which need 95/96/97 FT ... but hey, there are potions which give a temporary boost to OL/FT when necessary. Once you get into SoD, there are items which boost OL and FT, so 75 in each is still sufficient ... and in BG2 there are again items which will give you enough boost to open/disarm everything (except one door in ToB, which actually needs 150 to unlock, but you can get to the other side by a different route so you don't need to open it, and anyway you can open it with a Knock spell), so OL 75 and FT 75 is all you need.

OL and FT are certainly the most important Thief skills, and you'll use them frequently, so you should get them up to 75 before bothering to put any points (beyond your automatic starting skill) into any other Thief skill - unless you have more than one Thief, in which case the second Thief can (and should) focus on other skills. For example, during the BG1 section of my own current run (I'm now in BG2), I started with Imoen and Montaron both in the party, so I had Imoen learning FT and OL (until she was later replaced by Tiax, who likewise put his skill points into FT and OL), while Montaron learnt Pick Pockets and Set Traps. The choice of priority between other Thief skills (other than OL and FT, I mean) is partly a matter of your playing style and partly of your party composition, but personally I usually find PP the most useful "other" skill, and there are some situations where ST can win a battle without fighting. Personally, I don't find backstabbing very useful (too unreliable - Thieves have crap THAC0 and often miss) unless I've got a Fighter/Thief or a Stalker (better THAC0 than an ordinary Thief), so I use Stealth (i.e. Hide in Shadows + Move Silently) mainly for scouting ... it becomes useful in BG2, but in BG1 there aren't enough Thief skill points to spare to bother investing any at all in HS and MS unless I have more than one Thief (so instead use a Potion of Invisibility or an Invisibility spell for scouting). Detect Invisibility is quite useful when you've got it up to near 100 and are facing multiple enemies who use invisibility or stealth, but again there aren't enough spare Thief skill points to bother with it in BG1 (nor many enemies who use stealth/invisibility, although there are some), but in BG2 it's like having permanent True Sight and there are more enemies against whom that's relevant, so it's worthwhile.

Regarding which skills are worth going beyond 100, the answer is that FT, ST and DI give no benefit beyond 100, OL also has no benefit beyond 100 (except for that one unnecessary door in BG2:ToB), but PP, HS and MS all continue improving up to 255. In BG1, however, I wouldn't go over 100 in any of these skills because there's always something better on which to spend the points. In the later stages of BG2, when everything else is already maxed, then yes, take PP, HS, MS up beyond 100. The advantage in taking PP beyond 100 is twofold - firstly it enables you to pick a Thief's (or Bard's) pocket (because the target NPC's PP score is deducted from your own when you try to steal from him, so it'll often fail unless your score is way higher than his), and secondly there are some merchants (especially in BG2) whose goods can be stolen successfully only if you have very high PP (for example, there's one in BG2 who will always catch you unless your PP is above 180). The advantage in taking HS and MS beyond 100 is that your ability to go into Stealth (and stay in Stealth) is penalised according to lighting conditions - you can do it with fairly low Stealth points at night (outdoors) or in a shadow, but you'll usually fail in sunlight or bright lighting, whereas with very high Stealth points you can hide even in bright light.

In the particular case of the OP's Swashbuckler, with no other Thief in the party (but with a Bard to take care of PP), I'd first build FT and OL to 75, then (if playing the character for BG1 only) I'd probably put all further Thief skill points into ST. If planning to take the protagonist through into SoD and then BG2ee (which in my case I would be), then instead I'd probably put all the additional points into PP instead of ST (because the only Bard NPCs in SoD and BG2 are kitted Bards with useless PP, unlike BG1's unkitted Bards), but sometimes I might also consider investing in some other skill (depending upon who else I intended to have in the party for SoD and BG2).

 

I still haven't played EE, but assuming detect illusion works identically to how it did in the original Shadows of Amn, it works on Mirror Image in addition to invisibility, and quite a few enemies will cast Mirror Image. So it can remove that annoyance.

The biggest problem is how vital find/disarm traps and open locks is to surviving exploration and obtaining loot. You almost require multiple thieves (multiclassing is OK, especially for a second thief) in BG1 and IDW1 so you can have one dedicated to traps and locks, and one dedicated to other skills.
If you want to backstab in BG1 or IWD1, you definitely need to have two thieves. In the case of backstabbing I'd recommend making a F/T or an assassin and taking Imoen or some other thief along to handle the actual thieving skills of Find Traps and Open Locks.

I should also point out that there is a reason they decided to combine Hide in the Shadows along with Move Silently into a single unified "Stealth" skill in the original Baldur's Gate, along with various weapon proficiencies into broader categories, but outcries from AD&D purists made them separate them into proper P&P skills in BG2.

 

Thieves get enough skill points to max out find traps and open locks and have plenty to spare for any other skills you wanna play with. I've never found the need to have more than one thief in my party.