The Kensai Missile Machine?

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Ok.

I keep reading mention of (but no explanation) that a Kensai can be the ultimate missile man, beating even an Archer etc hands down.

Now I do understand that this is with weapons that can be used for missile and melee like the hand axe or dagger...

But other than that I don't get it.

How on earth is the Kensai superior in missile combat?

Please advise.

 

Kensais also can use those throwing daggers and axes. And they apply their kit bonuses to the missile attack as well. They can also use their kai to maximise the damage.

There are some very powerful throwing axes and daggers around, which can beat the damage potential of a mere bow, as they are also combined with STR, Grand Mastery, and Kensai bonuses, not to forget 'kai', it is scary!

 

Give us an example

 

A half-orc kensai imported from BG1 has 20 STR, give him the evil route in BG2 for another +1 to STR, Lum the Mad's machine in WK for another +1...total of about 22 STR? I'm not sure if its possible to go higher. Anyway...get that, and then Grandmastery in Daggers, pick up Firetooth +3...2d4+3, +3 fire damage...

I'm not sure if Firetooth allows adding STR damage to your output when its thrown, but if it does...then boo YA! Its like wielding a bastard sword...

 

Actually, the evil route in BG2 gives +2 strength, and you can get another +1 to strength from the Deck of Many Things. So that would be 24 strength. Not quite Crom Faeyr, but damn close.

 

Only if you are a fighter or fighter multi-class. The evil route in the Wrath Trial with Sarevok gives a +1 bonus to strength, and a +1 bonus to your primary stat. So since fighters have strength as their primary stat, they get +2. Fighters/Barbarians: Strength. Clerics: Wisdom. Mages/Sorcerers: Intelligence. Thieves/Bards: Dexterity. Obviously Paladins and Rangers can't take the evil path. Well, technically, they can take it and get a bonus to strength, but they will turn into regular fighters. I'm not sure how multi-classes work. I do know that there is a heirarchy in what is checked. For example, with F/T, you ALWAYS get the bonus to strength. It's not like it's a 50/50 random determination. But other than fighters placing above thieves in the heirarchy of what is checked, I don't know how the other ones work out. I have no idea whether M/C get a bonus to intelligence or wisdom.

 

Okay so you do a lot of damage, but surely the archer gets in a bucketload of shots more.

So useful yes, heavy damage from a throw or two, but meanwhile the archer is peppering some poor mage with 5 or so shots a round, messing his/her chances to cast.

Or do they get multi shots also?

 

Thrown Daggers and Bowshots both have the same base ApR. I assume the Kensai missile machine will be a grandmaster in daggers.

 

Throwing daggers have the same number of attacks as most bows, and fighter-level and specialization and equipment extra attacks all apply. Unless the Archer in the example is using Tuigan, he and the Kensai will be evenly matched on ApR.

EDIT: Erm, sorry. Early morning posting means I can be behind on replies in the later threads since I open all the threads I want to look at at the same time, and then look and reply one by one. How about a damage comparison instead? We'll take the weapons with infinite ammo as comparison.

Firetooth: 2d4 + 3 + STR + 1d2 fire
Tansheron's Bow: 1d6 + ...0?
Short Bow of Gesen: 2 + 1d8 electrical

[ September 23, 2006, 16:29: Message edited by: Felinoid ]

 

I don't think that the Kensai is superior to an Archer in missile combat.

For sure he will have a superior bonus to dmg from his kit (+13 for a 40-level Kensai) compared to the +9 of the Archer.
But the Archer can use the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization (+2 to dmg AND +0,5 ApR).Also with Called Shot activated he gets an additional +2 bonus to dmg.

At last the bonus to dmg from STR does not apply to throwing daggers (Fire Tooth) but it does apply to the Arrows of Biting for example.So I am quite sure that an Archer,with G.M. in shortbows,who uses the Short Bow of Gesen with arrows of Biting can do potentially more dmg/round than a Kensai (it would be too complicated to do all the calculations now ).

But of course this doesn't mean that a Kensai can not be an excellent fighter when using missile weapons.

 

I have little to add that hasn't already been said, but just one point I'd like to raise.

When I did that with a paladin, I ended up with a Neutral Evil paladin- who oddly had not fallen!

 

Interesting... I never would have imagined the "sword saint" throwing daggers! Just switch to melee when enemies close in, instead of running away and hiding as an archer.

 

This does not seem conclusive at all. yet so many times now on these pages I have seen people alluding to the fact that Kensai CAN make the best missile users.

 

What's the point in using Gesen bow and arrows of biting? It doesn't add the lightning damage, so you'd be better off with Tuigan, wouldn't you?

And since when don't thrown weapons add str? >.>

 

The lightning dmg from Gesen bow stacks with the dmg of any arrow you use with it (acid,fire,etc...).And the arrows of Biting are the only arrows which get a bonus to dmg from STR (probably a bug of the game).

(In my experience): The bonus to Damage from STR applies to all the melee weapons,to the thrown weapons when they are used as melee and to the melee weapons created by spells (like the Flame Blade etc.).

But there are some exceptions here.The bonus to Dmg from STR applies also to :


a) Throwing Axes and Hammers (but not Daggers), even when they are used as missile (except from the axe Azuredge)
b) Non magical Darts
c) Arrows of Biting
d) ALL the magical bullets and Bags of Plenty
e) Sling of Seeking (as stated in the description).

 

I thought arrows were enhanced by strength too ...

 

^ Nope, they shouldn't be.

 

Or am I thinking about just BGI?

 

Well that's just dumb, then. O.o Thrown weapons are forced from the hand using brute force, why wouldn't it use str to enhance the damage? Even if it's only half the bonus, it only makes sense. But eh, I'm obviously thinking too realistically. =P And yeah, I checked up on the Gesen bow and it just says + 1d8 lightning, so blah!

Nonetheless, I like eggs and so do Kensai. WIN.

 

I liked axes before and still do.