Looking for Class Testers

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Introducing a new Ranger class, one of many to come to the BG2 community. I am looking for a few testers to help me balance this Ranger kit. I will display the Ranger kit advantages and disadvantages in hopes to help me balance the kit so that its not over powering to the game.

Dragon Master is a ranger specially trained to battle dragons. Some dragon masters consider themselves to be on a holy mission of some sort or another, while others are simply part of an guild of rangers dedicated to protecting humanity from one or more types of evil dragons.

A dragon master is easy to recognize. Most of the time you can tell what a Dragon Master has killed based upon the weapons and armor he carries. Dragon Masters will forge their weapons out of the evil dragons they have slain. Their main special ability is that they studdied the druidic art of shape changing as well as severe training in two-handed weapons such as the halbred, spear, bow and two-handed sword. The Dragon Master is a very good edition to any adventuring party. Their primary goal is to seek out the evil dragons of the world.

Advantages:
- +2 Dexterity
- +1 Constitution
- Cast Cure Light Wounds (Level 1)
- Cast Detect Evil (Level 1-8)
- Cast Protection from Evil (Level 1-8)
- Cast Lay on Hands (Level 1)
- Cast Remove Fear (Level 1-8)
- Immune to Fear
- Immune to Poison
- Immune to Morale Failure
- Magic Resistance 2% per Level
- Cast Resurrection (Level 10)
- Cast Paralization (Level 11)
- Cast Cone of cold (Level 12)
- Shift Change to a Silver Dragon (Level 20
- 4 Prof slots to halbred, spear, bow, and two-handed sword
- 4 Prof slots to two handed weaps

Disadvantages
- Cant be any evil alignment
- -3 to str

I know there needs to be more Disadvantages to the kit. Thats where the testers come in not only to help in this area as well as to find bugs that I may have over looked. Which I do not think there is any bugs. I will let the testers decide that to help fine tune this good class. I have others that need tuning but have to start somewhere. If you want to help me test this class just send me a burd76@comcast.net and I will send you the exe to install Alpha 3 Build. I am also almost done with a expansion pack to the game but thats not ready yet for testing. But i will say this it adds to TDD and SOS fixing alot of problems that are still in those expansions as well as adding to the game as well. I will post when that is closer to Alpha release. For now I am focusing on the kits that will be in the expansion.

 

I think this is more than a little overpowered - why would a dragon-slayer shapeshift into a dragon and gain breath-weapon-like powers? Also, with the stated attitudes you've listed, why is it a ranger kit - this seems more like a Paladin or Fighter kit/subclass to me. I'd revise as follows:

As a Paladin kit - very similar to the Cavalier...

Advantages:
---------------
Immune To Fear/Morale Failure
+4 to hit/damage vs. any dragon
+2% resistance to fire, cold, acid and lightning per level
Indomitable Will once per day: the Dragon Master gains +4 to both Con and Str, and an additional +20% resistance to fire, cold, lightning and acid damage for level/2 rounds. At level 18, this becomes +6 to both stats and +30% to resistances.

Disadvantages:
---------------
Standard paladin disadvantages
Cannot use ranged weapons or draconic items (ie: anything containing dragon scales, blood, skin etc.)
Cannot Turn Undead or cast spells
-4 reaction penalty vs. dragons

Still very powerful, but tailored to fight dragons. Not so uber as before.

As a fighter kit -

Advantages:
--------------
Bonuses to hit/damage dragons, immune to fear/morale failure (as above)
Righteous Fury 1/day per 4 levels: the Dragon Master gains +1 STR, CON and DEX for every three levels, +2 to all saving throws, and gains one additional attack per round. This effect lasts for level/2 rounds.

Disadvantages:
---------------
Cannot use ranged weapons or draconic items
Must be of Good or Neutral alignment
-4 reaction penalty vs. dragons

Just my 2c - feel free to accept or reject any/all of it.

 

maybe i should of gone abit more into detail on why its a ranger. Ranger typically every one pictures a bow and arrow in hand with leather armor on and ability to charm animals and has a set point of advantage of over a certain type of monster. This Ranger Kit is designed to be that exactly but they gone into farther into developing and honing their skill further, I recall there is a kit in DnD that does allow shapechanging but like I said I thru out the idea as a Ranger and a Ranger is what he will stay. This is why I put up a post on him to get feedback and ways to help reform his original ideas because main reason is the expansion pack that is almost ready to come out involves this ranger kit in a quest this is raw format and this is ideas me and the other people working on this expansion have would like to see on the ranger but like you said hes overpowering that is why me and the development team decided to put up a post to throw ideas we may have not thought of to help balance, and again ill say this class is Alpha form right now so any constructive critics is welcome. Maybe just give the ranger dragon spell abilities and not able to shapeshift into a dragon. Thanks for the ideas though but he will stay a ranger it would push back the expansion to change him to something else.
Ok here is the refitted Dragon Master in hopes of making him more balanced to the world of BG2

Advantages:
- +2 Dexterity
- +1 Constitution
- Cast Cure Light Wounds (Level 1-8)
- Two-Handed Weapon Specialization ++++
- +15% to Hide in the Shadows
- Fire, Acid, Electrical, and Cold Resistance 2% every 3 Levels
- +4 to hit/damage vs dragons
- Save vs Breath Bonus 2% per level

Disadvantages
- Must maintain a good or neutral alignment
- Bonus to AC vs Missle equivalent to having no armor
- Cannot wear greater than Studded Leather Armor

[ November 21, 2004, 09:03: Message edited by: Tramplar ]

 

Still it seems to be very powerful.
That +2 dexterity, coupled with being an elf, would allow for 21 dexterity, 22 if you got the tome in BGI!!
I like the idea of +4tohit/damage vs. dragons, the fire acid, elec, and cold resistances and save vs. breath bonuses. +1 constitution is also good. I would drop the dexterity bonus, the +15% to hide in shadows, and allow the playerto pick whatever weapons he wants (as a ranger normally would).

 

Rangers in BGII have to be of Good alignment - you can open up the kit to allow Neutral ones too but the character will still Fall if his reputation drops too low.

Also, I'm not sure I understand the second disadvantage: Does it mean that against missile attacks his AC is 10 + DEX modifier only? I don't see how that would fit the kit too well given that dragons aren't prone to using missile weapons.

Also, why can't he wear heavy armour?

I am not a big fan of stat modifiers to kits either - why is a ranger who attacks Dragons stronger than one who doesn't?

Also, you can't have a % bonus to a save in BGII, so it'd have to be a +1 bonus per 3 levels or something.

I also think it'd work better as a Fighter kit or something, though as a previous poster said the Cavalier sort of fills this role. A Ranger can take the Dragon as favoured enemy already, so if you wanted a Ranger themed against dragons that'd be one way of doing it.

 

If you wear full plate mail, you get a further -5 (is it 5?) to your AC vs. missles. So that gives you 9 + 5 = 14 AC bonus vs. missles just from the full plate mail. Other armours give this bonus as well, just in different amounts. Armour also gives bonuses to crushing and slashing damage.
Go to the record page and look at your armour class modifiers. Take everything off but your armour to see what it gives you.

 

That's what I thought he meant, yeh.

 

Yeah being weak against missles his armor would be 14 AC with no armor on, since they focused so much on battling dragons they actually get a double bonus if you think about it, +4 to Dragon hit bonus as well as a additional 4 if you choose dragon in natural enemy list. Toyed with the notion to adjust thaco against missles as well but thought -8 modifier to AC against missles will make it rough enough being that there is alot of missle type enemies in game

 

Umm.. with no armour on, his base AC should still be 10, vs. missles or not. No armour gives no bonuses to missle AC. But, if you're wearing full plate (he can't, because of restrictions, but let's just say..) then he receives an AC bonus of nine (full plate has an AC of 1) vs. everything, but does not receive the normal +5 AC bonus vs. missles that full plate gives (once again, if it is infact 5).

So, what you are really saying, is he receives a penelty to missle AC, regardless of the armour he's wearing.
And where did you get that -8 modifer from? Shouldn't it be -4, if he has a base AC of 14 vs. missles. Or is that 14 vs. missles including the dex modifier?

 

Geoff your right i did the math instead of a quick quess and your right, and thats without modd to dex which i will probably be taking off of him. But having some bugs with the way the modifier for missles is working. So that might not be released with him till I sort out the problem with that but his other abilities are working fine just that one giving me slight problems, his beta build will be ready to download either tomorrow or the day after after i do some extreme testing with him the next day or so. Yes to those of you I am aware TDD has a Dragon Slayer Fighter, i like the challenge of making a class that is good do something abit extreme. Was toying with the idea of maybe creating so type of pet for the dragon master. That will be able to work with the ranger some way or another. I think the only way that would work was to make it a familiar type say for example a dire wyrm. have it protect the ranger to its death and not able to be completely controlled but controlled enough. basically like a familiar is to a sorceror if it would die would cause the ranger to lose a stat of some sort. What do you all think of a idea like that to make the dragon master more of a controller of minor dragons much more like a rangers abilities instead of a slayer type. Just ideas would like to get feedback on this would be apprieciated.

 

Tramplar, I'm with you on the controlling idea. From the title Dragon Master, I'd assume the more controlling 'Dragon Whisperer' type character, rather than the slayer type. To have some sort of affinity with dragons (I'm thinking of the movie Dragon Heart here), that would give this character abilities to charm, weaken, and elude dragons. Having a psuedo dragon familiar would work as well. I can definitely see a ranger in this.

 

sounds like a beastmaster :?
I too think that the ranger class could do with another cool kit. Though they've already got cool kits (stalker esp, archer kinda too), I just like rangers

 

Ok lady and gents The Dragon Master Ranger is up for Beta testing anyone interested plese let me know and ill send it via email since our website isnt launched yet. The kits advantages and disadvantages are as followed.

Advantages:
ABility to call a Dragon Companion (pseudo or fairy dragon)
Cast Cure Serious Wounds (Level 4, 7, 10)
+1 to Constitution
Racial Enemy +4 to hit (Assuming you chose dragon)
Fire/Ice/Elect/Acid Resistance +2 per level
Magic Resistance 2% per level equiv to 1 / level
++++ to Halbred, Spear, two-handed sword, and Long bow

Disadvantages:
Dragon Companion dies -1 to Con
Must maintain Good ALignment
Cannot wear greater then Stdded Leather
+ profiency to all other weapons (besides ones mentioned above)

I thank you to those of you that replied and gave suggestions it is greatly apprieciated, and stay tuned for more kits coming soon in the next few days and again thank you for the input was a great help. Want the new kit send email to burd76@comcast.net SUBJECT:KIT

 

The dragon is going to be a "familiar-esque" kind of creature?

 

Yes will be a familiar kind of creature. Original idea was to have the familiar type creature but have it able to go up in levels and progress with the Dragon Master. Had a few problems with that and would have to lean towards more of a NPC type companion. So yes Enagonios its been leaning in favor of the familiar-esque. May modify the 2 types of dragons to be slightly better in combat with you but again have to see how the current Dragon Master version will do and determine by what everyone likes and dislikes about the Dragon Master. Will decide the role the companion will have as well as any additional skills or taking away of skills to keep the kit balanced and fun to play.

 

oh okay, because it sounds like a really cool kit but it seems to be overpowered bec. it has too few disadvantages imo. The must maintain good alignment is a given for any ranger as it is and placing the proficiencies in the chosen weapons seems like a no-brainer bec. it allows you more slots than a regular ranger does (4 vs. 2), so restricting every other weapon to a proficiency doesn't really, er, restrict the class.

 

Seeing as this kit specializes in battling and killing dragons, hence the +4 bonus, it may be fair to give the kit disadvantages for a few other creatures. If he specialised so much in the dragon region the other regions must have suffered.

So give him -1 thaco and damage to all other creatures. Or -2 thaco and damage to a few dangerous ones like beholders and vampires.

 

Don't like it. Still way overpowered. Only has standard Ranger disadvantages (except being limited to + instead of ++ in most weapons, but this is more than offset by being able to get ++++ in all the best weapons in the game). And he/she gains monstrous benefits: familiar, innate spells, elemental resistance, magic resistance. Just how many magic items would a normal character have to have in order to get that many benefits? This is not balanced, not by a long shot. It's a powergamer's dream come true.

 

One more thing to add - while I agree that it seems overpowered, the 4+ to two handed weapon proficiency is impossible (at least I thought so). If I'm wrong, and this is in fact possible, what would be the bonus for having four, seeing as how the base game only gives bonuses up to 2+.