Do I need a Rogue?

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Im happily going about the game in the middle of chapter one. I have a sorcerer, Cleric and Barbarian. I restarted with this party from my original party of four. My question is from some of you who are in chapter 2 and farther, will I need a rogue (Im not a masochist so if I need one I will add one now.) and does a party of three have a chance. Im playing on normal level, min/maxed characters and I have a decent knowledge of the spells and some of the good combos. Just dont want to get to far and find out I have ventured too far unprepared.

Thanks all.

[ September 05, 2002, 11:33: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

The game designers recommend 4+ characters, because that is what they designed the difficulty based on. Whether you *need* that many is a function of how you play (your tolerance for heavy resting, type of tactics, etc).

As for a rogue specifically, I'd say that one is nice but not essential. There are plenty of traps you can disarm, but none I have encountered so far (start of chapter 4) are lethal. Opening doors is not too rough if you have a high strength character and a "Knock" option from your Sorceress. That's how I handle it. The thing that is *really* useful from your rogue in this game is scouting. However, you could get that ability from other characters if you wanted. The sneaking around and getting some advance warning of what's coming has saved my bacon quite a bit.

 

So far, have my rogue only been used to scout ahead and use his bow. And he's good at it too!

 

You can always dual the Rogue to Fighter after a few levels if you want to. Doesn't have to be that good a thief to succeed with opening doors and such.

 

I use a rogue as an archer. Only skills I use her for is pick locks and disarm traps. As far as only playing a party of three... I'd advise against it. I just killed the Guardian Dragon in chapter 5 and it was very hard even with a full party of 6. I would have been eaten with only 3 people. You might argue that you can get exp faster but remember the higher level you are the less exp you get from each kill. So instead of having 6 level 13's you might have 3 level 16's. Personally I'd rather have the extra people. Not only that but the game sends more lackeys at you when you are higher level. A level 10 party might get 6 lackeys sent at them, where a level 15 party might get 8 or 9 in the same area.

 

You people are all wrong. Yes, in the beginning you will use your rogue as a shooter and lockpicker. But after you get something like 5d6 sneak attack, your rogue (having high Dex) will have high AC (I have 22), with power attack and weapon finesse AND MULTIPLE sneak attacks in any battle without need of hiding, your thief becomes a killer. I have seen my halfling explode three enemies in three rounds with an average of 20 damage, and the highest damage was 36!!!!

 

I would recommend a rogue in any party, and not just for locks and traps. Evy single attack a rogue makes from behind or the flank is a sneak attack, I am not that far in to the game yet and my rogue is only level 9, but has backstabbed as high as 40 damage, and sneak attack gets better as you level. They are good for scouting too of course.
Dont worry about strength for your rogue, you can get weapon finesse and the rogues attacks will be based on Dex rather then strength in melee, they get multiple attacks and you can get ambidexterous and dual weild for more attacks.
My rogue is easily already at level 9 the biggest damage dealer in the group unless we are fighting undead or constructs. Thinking of level 30 when the backstab will be weapon damage +15D6 per attack from behind will be nice.

 

Yes, the sneak attacks are nice. But you don't *need* a rogue to do lots of melee damage. You have other options for that. Now, if the question has been "what good is a rogue?", that'd be different.

 

I think you should get a rogue. No other character is as versatile as the rogue; he can get more feats and skills than anyone else, and he makes a good sneak-attacker, back-up fighter and/or mage protector. My one suggestion would be not to make your rogue a drow (like I foolishly did) since he moves up in levels *very* slowly (he's already one or two levels behind everybody, and I'm in Chapter 1) or any other race that levels-up slowly.

 

I found Drows to be very dissappointing overall. Not only do they have 2 level adjustment, but they take penalties in sunlight which is at least half of the game!

You "could" play through the game without a rogue, but not having a high lockpick and disarm traps skill will make you take extra damage in some areas and miss out on some loot.

Small tip with rogues: don't use a shield, ever. Not sure which level, but rogues get a skill that gives them an evade chance to avoid hits, but can't be using a shield during this. My rogue was actually taking less damage without a shield than with a shield. So either dual wield or use a bow/crossbow.

Unfortunately I thought you had to stealth before using sneak attack (as in 2nd edition rules) when I started the game so I made my rogue an archer. If I play again I'd have her dual wield and probably pick up a few warrior levels for toughness and weapon proficiencies.

 

I have always been a lover of playing Dark Elves for many years now. I dont mind the level penalty, I had it very rough through chapter 1 with 2 dark elves in my party. By Chapter two though they are not that far behind in levels any more, caster for instance do not gain more spells after level 20, and many abilities stop increasing, so, you are really only out on some HP, and at level 10 I have already seen that two levels seems to not make a huge difference.

Its a small price to pay and I love the race, its tough at first but once you start leveling they are powerful. When fighting lots of casters my dark elves are the ones keeping everything together half the time with thier high spell resistance. And frankly, they are fun to play.

 

I prefer using thief as my archer so i woder if does sneak attack damage applies with ranged attacks??

[ September 07, 2002, 11:33: Message edited by: Gothmog4230 ]

 

It can in certain circumstances in p&p, but does not do so in IWD2. So the rogue archer loses out on the sneak attack damage.

 

Sneak attack damage is applied to range attacks but you still need to be behind the apponent and you have to be close. In table top you have to be with in range of 30, I am not sure how that transfers over to IWD2.

 

In 3rd edition there is on facing so if the only way to sneak attack with a ranged weapon is if the opponent doesn't have his dexterity modifier to AC (this can happen if he is grappled or running or flat footed etc.) and you are withing 30 ft.
The problem I seem to have with rogues in IWD2 is that they only get to make 1 sneak attack per opponent. I tried it a lot and only the first attack was a sneak attack. I dunno if I'm doing something wrong. I'm always attacking an opponent in the back while he is facing another with all my attacks. I even saw it in the information at the records page and it said that only the first attack is a sneak attack. Do you know if the above all is true?

 

I like to have a rogue in my party. Ropues always are usaefull.

 

Actually you don't have to leave the area to sneak attack again. While scouting I sneak attacked a wolf who chased my character for a while and after some time (I think it was about ten rounds or so since I had to run all the way back to the party and have the fighters distract him) I managed to sneak attack him for a second time, I still dunno how it works

EDIT

Something I found out after testing today is that you can get a second sneak attack on the same enemy if you havent attacked him for 5 rounds. I did this by holding a monster sneak attacking it and then counting the wounds from whatever its name is strike

[ September 17, 2002, 02:00: Message edited by: HeartOfDarkness ]