Aren't There Any True Role Players Left?!

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Reroling:
one justification for rerolling is that you have to choose your class before your rolling stats

rerolling until you got summed stats of 90 or more probably takes a lot of fun out of the game; you never need to really think about taktics, so you newer devellop any.


Reloading:
Roleplayingwise I think redoing a fight 10 times is worse than 'cloudkill on dragons' stile taktics. But it sure is lots more fun. But I do try to be conservative on my NPCs and prefer a solidly murderous taktic (e.g. ranged weapons, word of death or other high-level non-contact spells) to one that is more heroic (move in and hack) but only works if the dragon doesn't use wing buffets, breath, ... (i.e. works only by sheer luck).

Paladins:
Paladins are humans! They can deviate from their chosen paths at times. (if all historic knights had been purely goody goods their memory wouldn't have survived till today).
Paladins are leaders (today you would call them politicians). So they should be entiteled the same amount of bigotry you allow on any politicioan you still vote for (for me thats a lot, but then I don't play paladins).

 

"Paladins are humans! They can deviate from their chosen paths at times. (if all historic knights had been purely goody goods their memory wouldn't have survived till today)."

You are wrong! You and I are humans. We devviate from our chosen paths at times. We are not pure goody goodies. But when we die we will be forgotten.

People are remembered for the things that set them out from the rest. It is the Paladin's moral character that sets him apart. The fact that he strives to be the epitome of good. A Paladin with an ingrained flaw or prejudice would likely not die a Paladin as it will cost him greatly one day. Bigotry is a flaw which affects judgement, something Paladins should be good at.

A politician is not a Paladin, and Paladin is not just a leader. A knight is also not a Paldin. A knight is just a fighter. Neither is a samurai a Paladin, no matter what ideals you say these historic people have.

Thus, Paladins do not exist outside of imagination. If you cannot strive to take the strengths with the weaknesses, just play a souped up fighter with many powerful abilities and items. But don't call him a Paladin.

That's like calling yourself a Navy SEAL or SAS guy without the qualifications.

 

I believe you are a slight bit off. Paladins by there very nature tend to be of great and true virtue. However, just as a cleric can lose his way (Adon, anyone?) a paladin can strike out and do something in malice or passion. Such things commonly result in Ex-Paladins, or in dire cases (as a Paladin becoming a vampire) Anti-Paladins/Blackguards. And these are but the extremes.

Imagine if in their haughty nature a Paladin curses at a harlot and reprimands her for her behavior. If she spits in his face and he raises his hand and smacks her a good one, has he lost his Paladin way? Will he be disgraced and shamed forever? Will his diety refuse to grant him the powers he has come to know and trust as a Paladin? Simple answer: no. He will repent and ask for forgiveness from his diety, and the people would eventually forget. He will eventually die, and when he is remembered, he will be remembered for rescuing a maiden and her children from a fire, defending the town from an orcish invasion, and journeying off to slay a chimera who had been preying on trade routes. As with many great people, Paladins will be remembered for their good accomplishments, and their bad will be purposefully forgotten. His demeanor will be remembered as to his greatness, his courage, his deeds, his loyalty, and not the occasional slip or straying from duty. Such things are left between the Paladin and his god.

Amon-Ra

 

Bah! Stupid topic this is. it all comes down to this: it's your game and you play it your way. If some 'powergamer' boasts about his level 99 character, you snigger and shake your head while laughing about how pathetic he is TO YOURSELF. I, for one, am often in no mood to listen to self-righteous arses rant about 'role-playing'. And paladins...no matter how good natured they are, it will not save them from the wrath of my katana, those incarnations of Bigotry made into canned food.

 

Go play some Diablo. It does wonders for you over-inflated ego and delusional lust for power-gaming. Enjoy! But do not tread a realm created for role-playing and think that role-playing is not to be expected. Self-righteous? You remind me of the ignorant freaks who think the internet should be for everyone: pr0n should be removed because kids might see it. Gamecopyworld and Napster should be removed because they can POSSIBLY infringe on copyrights. Screw them. The internet was a compilation to allow for the access and swapping of corporate and private files. The pioneers and early 'hackers' during the BBS era were driven off by greedy corporations and ignorant people who wanted to use it for something it wasn't made for: marketing. Is it not human nature to oppose the misuse of something you are a member of? Does the National Rifle Association condone the violence of drive-by shootings? If nothing else, it makes them look bad in the eyes of the ignorant (AKA: the masses)

In summary: D&D and RPG's have become an elitist world because too many morons were screwing it up. You can't be a track star if you aren't fast, and you can't be an actor if you can't act (most of the time). RPG's don't have such safeguards. Maybe I'm way off base in saying this, but: RPG's were created to RP. Is that not obvious? Thus if you want to take it and do something it wasn't intended for, don't brag about your abuse and expect to recieve commendations from others.

I am in every way an elitist, by nature of sheer pragmatism, and so are you, Shura. Admit it or not, simply by your last post you have demonstrated how you feel you need not pay heed to others because you are in the right. You are just as self-righteous as those you condemn.

Amon-Ra

 

Piss off. I never expected any commendations for my style of playing. And neither should you get any for yours. It just pisses me off that you feel that you have the right to judge your style superior. And drive-by shootings? Some people just deserve em. Internet's for everyone cos everyone has to experience the evil things in the world someday. And can't stand the pressure from the big corps? Get the hell out. As for Napster and their kind, whether or not they should be allowed to exist depends on their ability to win their lawsuits. Sad, but this is the system America is based on. What is legal is right. For crying out loud this is only a bloody game and people come here to swap strategies or tales about their gaming experiences. Bastards who flame others and insist others following them are not needed. Being the avid D&D freak that you are, I shall now leave you to fantasise about your enchanted sword while living in your mother's basement. There's a difference between 'gamer' and 'geek'. I guess you're more of the latter.

 

Well in my opinion you can power-game all
you wan't so long as this does not destroy
the fun for other gamers. I have seen lots of "munchkins" that fit in because they DO
game to get the most powerfull characther
possible but this is ok if it doesn't mean
everyone else is cannon-fodder. I played a
game with someone that charmed my figther,
took his valuables and send him into the
jaws of death. I guess this was to "stock
up" for his next game with his regular group. But I really couldn't get angry.
Just a game. But is was kind of boring to sit there while HE played MY characther.

 

The only thing I object to is those who inflict hacked characters in multi player. Actually, the only "role-playing" in BG is playing according to your alignment. You can do that as easily with a superman, as with a wimp. They have the right idea in Neverwinter Nights with the character vault, to keep hacked characters out of multi player games. In single player, do what you want.

 

I just come back from holidays, so firstly Happy New Year, Century, Millenium to all .

Then, this thread is really interesting. I want to do these comments :

1/ You bought the game, so you can do whatever you want with it, cheat and hack if you want, it's YOUR game, it's YOUR way to find fun. No problem. Just, don't destroy the fun of other people in multi-player games.

2/ Reload : yes I use the reload option quite often, because I like to try different strategies to find a solution to a problem. And, I'm curious, so I wanted to test all the limited wishes possibilities, wand of wonders, book of infinite spells...

3/ Reroll : well, I play RPG since 1983, and I have a LOT of different characters, from CE to LG alignment, from Humans to Dwarves, from pure Fighters to pure Wizards. When, I rolled bad dices, I threw the paper away and rolled again if the DM accepted. No one here used the wondefull 'Central Casting' book to generate really funny backgrounds ?? Ah ah some dices were very annoying for some of my characters, but some hindrances are really fun to play, hehe .

4/ Amon-Ra, I must disagree, you can find random in Nature, at the quantic level. Soon, hmmm... in few decades, you will find quantic computers that can generate true random series.

5/ During these holidays, I played with a solo high-level Sorcerer (imported from a previous BG2 game), too easy and boring, I didn't finnish that game. So, I began a solo new Monk, interesting but really hard in the beginning.

6/ Ressurection : I never used that spell, nor in P&P games. If I'm a DM, I assume that a dead character IS dead and cannot be revived. Well, it's my point of view. As for wishes, I guess in 17 years of P&P play, I only used 2 wishes (on a ring), no more, and I never used Time Stop. My high level character is a 17th Bladesinger, played for several years.

Well, I guess that's all for the moment .

 

Ah. Remember the good 'ol days when we all were posting about Irenicus' Dungeon?

*sighs*

Syl...

 

Rasalgethi, concerning the resurection I found an interesting comment in the 3E rules:
When you go below 0 hps you are dying and have to make saving throws against death every hour. You are lying on the floor and can't do anything. You don't heal yourself, but you can be healed.

I like this because the idea of fighting with full power upto the last blooddrop seems a bit ridiculous to me. Having an intermediate state seems to be a good solution. And while BGII certainly does not behave according to this model, I think its near enough.

 

Sorl, I agree with you, I don't know about 3E rules, but before when a character reaches 0 HP, he falls unconscious and he loses 1 HP every round (yes) until he/she is healed. If the character reaches -10 HP, he/she dies definitely.

I guess, like you, it is important to have this intermediate state, because yes, it is an aberration for most of characters to fight to death every time (except for Berserker, some Paladins, some Clerics...). In certain circumstances, I'd flee a fight or surrender if I feel too bad.

And for massive damages, disintegration, death spells... I don't accept resurection if I'm the DM. Well, and yes, I lost several characters as a player with these rules, hehe.

 

Well, Shura, I must once again applaud your amazing arguing skill. I mean, you start off with an insult, put words in my mouth (did i say i wanted commendation?), then proceed to make ignorant comments with no REAL knowledge of any sort. Bravo! Oh! But we aren't done yet! Then you begin a string of personal attacks in which you show you have little to no argument yourself and must resort to calling names(how old ARE you? I thought I was young...). You conclude this AMAZING defense by calling me a geek. Ouch! My poor, low self-esteem has just been ravaged by your superior intelect and self-righteousness. I am a geek and a nerd. This is all too true. Also, I earn $18 an hour as a systems administrator and haven't even graduated from high-school yet. (I'm 16). So if I live in my parent's basement, that would be a little wierd. Oh, and, I wouldn't have to fantasiZe (notice the z?) about a sword, as I am the DM.

I'm impressed. And I'm sorry to have taken up good board space by provoking such a worthwhile argument.

Amon-Ra

 

Speaking about role playing, or lack thereof, I just read in another forum some guy wanting to finish the human skin armor, so Viconia can wear it. And he's playing a Chaotic Good Ranger! I wish that Rangers and Paladins would become fallen when their players do some blatant, knowing, evil act, no matter what their reputation is. No one flames these people for lack of "role-playing", and I've read many similar posts from players of Paladins and Rangers.

 

Crazy J: LOL. That guy was probably only playing BG as a break from Quake 3.