Revenge of the Sith...PG-13?!?!?

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Luke, while somewhat angsty, didn't strike me as a 90210 reject. Listening to teenaged Anakin whine for the thousandth time made me want to rip my hair out and scream.

 

After thinking about it, I've no doubt that it won't measure up to the originals, or reach everyones high expectations - so when I go into the cinema, I ought to be either very pleasantly suprised or disappointed.

 

PG-13! Do you think they'll include the rumored Yoda and Dooku "forbidden love" scene?

 

I thought it was Yoda and Palpatine?

Or was that Anakin and Obi-wan (all that tension...it's gotta be sexual, right)? Blast, I can never keep it straight.

 

Click the link, I will leave the conclusion to you.

Title of the article: Star Wars will be "Titanic" tear jerker.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=7941924

 

I can say I've honestly cried at the end of Return of the Jedi when Anakin saves Luke. It touches a personal note with regards to my father and myself.

I think the many of the characters in the originals have a likable depth to them. The prequel characters have just as much depth, but it isn't widely as appealing. It's easier to picture Jedi as all powerful, infallible, butt-kicking machines of justice and peace across the galaxy.

But as Qui-Gon proves first (if you watch the films chronologically) this is not the case. The Jedi are not all powerful, Padme even makes it a point to tell Anakin this, but he won't listen.

I think when all six are viewed together the puzzle pieces will click for many. Whether it was meant to start this way or not (and there are traces of this line of thinking in the original Star Wars) I believe that the ultimate theme in Star Wars is that:

It doesn't matter how much the Shiz you are with lightsaber. It doesn't matter if you can shoot lightning out of your fingers like nobody's business. It doesn't matter if you can jump far distances and slow your falls and run unhumanly fast, or deflect super fast laser bolts with a sword, or even trick the minds of others. All of that doesn't matter, if love is not involved. All of that pales in comparison. Love may not be quicker and flashier, but in the end it wins out.

I believe that is ultimately what the Star Wars saga has come to convey. You can't watch the end of Return of the Jedi in light of all the episodes before that and not come to that conclusion if you think critically about the Star Wars saga.

And I do believe that this theme had its roots in the original Star Wars, so you can't say that Lucas changed his mind all the way. It was there from the beginning. Obi-Wan does not fight flashy with Vader, in fact he stops fighting when the time is right and sacrifices himself. What for? Love. Love of his devotion to the Jedi and for Luke. He spent years in the desert watching Luke from a safe distance. He didn't do it for a paycheck. He didn't do it for fame. He did it for the greater good. It's not a romantic love, more of a love born out of duty and morals.

And then there's Han. I wonder if he cares about anyone or anything...

I care...

Heh, sorry, had to throw that in. But yes, Han's character arc conveys a different kind of love. Again, not romantic, but friendship. He decides to help in the Battle of Yavin (even if at a cinematically convenient moment) and not turn his back on his friends.

And C3PO will gladly donate his parts to his dying friend.

But seriously, this theme, has been there since the beginning. And it has evolved and grown. But it's there, from the very beginning. Love beats all in the end.

But the prequels aren't the end, and I think that is part of why they aren't well received by some people. Before you can get to the love beats all part, you have to see examples of people forgetting to love, and surpressing it. Being afraid of it. The Jedi mean well, but their methods are flawed. Taking young children away from their families just to avoid attachments. Bah. And it brings about their downfall. But when Yoda and Obi-Wan embrace love, the Jedi come back.

And yes, what I'm getting at is very controversial, but I among the Star Wars camp that believes that Yoda and Obi-Wan believe (in Episodes IV, V, and VI) just as Padme will believe in Episode III (you'll see) and just as Luke will come to believe in Return of the Jedi, that Anakin can be redeemed. That beneath the name of Vader and the suit, there is still Anakin, and that by loving him, he can be redeemed.

I think that is where Lucas is going with thematically for all this.

I am banking money on it, that Padme will stick with Anakin and believe that he can turn away from his evil and be forgiven in Episode III, even if this line of thinking costs her life, and I have a good feeling it will.

It's just like Luke came to think. But wait you say. Obi-Wan and Yoda thinking Anakin can be redeemed? Surely not.

But I say, surely yes. Look beneath the surface, don't take things at face value...

1) If Yoda and Obi-Wan think Luke can defeat "Vader and his Emperor" then why the heck do they not teach him fancy smancy Jedi moves? Why don't they teach him how to block force lightning with his hands or his saber? (Ok, you say, but that's a prequel influenced argument. Where's your original trilogy proof? Coming right up...) Why is it that the most important lessons Luke receives on Dagobah are
a) patience (i.e. silly Yoda testing him upon his arrival),
b) believing in yourself to do the seemingly impossible (i.e. raise an crashed X-Wing from a swamp without even physically touching it)and
c) going into the unknown, a place of dark evil, but not needing your weapons (i.e. the cave...remember his failure at the cave) I mean for crying out loud, Yoda considered the fact that Luke used his lightsaber to fight a Vader apparation as a failure. If he wanted Yoda to kill Vader, you think he would be saying "Right on, Luke! Love the way you used your saber. And whoo, nice one. Lopping off his head. You go Luke!" Nope, didn't happen that way.

Still need more? OK, why does Obi-Wan
a) sacrifice himself to Vader when Luke is watching (i.e. modeling sacrifice instead of Jedi butt-whooping)
b) go around saying things like "You can't win, but there are alternatives to fighting" (i.e. "Luke there's no way in hell you are going to defeat Vader and the Emperor by fighting, but there are alternatives) and
c) having Luke learn to defend himself with the "blast shield down" (i.e. don't be confused with how things look on the surface, your eyes can deceive you.)

All of Luke's training points towards defense, sacrifice, alternatives to fighting, and doing the impossible (aka turning one of the most evil men in the galaxy back to good without killing him. So that, together, they can defeat Palpatine and start the Jedi Order anew.)

Now, you being the loyal classic trilogy fan that you are begin to pull out some qoutes of your own, such as...

"He's more machine now than man...twisted and evil."

"Then the Emperor has already won." (Obi-Wan's response to Luke saying that he can't kill his own father.)

It would seem that from the conversation that Luke has with Obi-Wan on Dagobah in RotJ suggests that all along Yoda and Obi-Wan have wanted Luke to kill Vader and the Emperor. But, don't you remember one of the first lessons Obi-Wan ever teaches Luke? Things aren't always as they seem. See these tracks? Sandpeople ride single file to hide their numbers. These tracks are side by side. And these scorch marks...only Imperial stormtroopers are so precise.

So, back to Dagobah. I think the explanation for Obi-Wan's choice of words in this conversation can be drawn from what we know about Yoda and Obi-Wan's treatment of Luke. They were witholding the fact that Vader was his father from him until the time was right. And Luke slipped off to Cloud City before that time was right. Finding out the your father is the second most evil man in the galaxy is not easy news to swallow. If Luke knew too soon that Vader was his father, getting him to try to turn back Vader to Anakin would be harder, because it seems such a seemingly impossible task. Much easier it would be, to just try and kill him.

Now Obi-Wan tells Luke on Tatooine that a young pupil of his, named Darth Vader, betrayed and murdered his father, and that he was seduced by the Dark side of the Force. You would think such a statement would garner up hate and resentment in Luke towards Darth Vader. But I think Obi-Wan finds this a safe thing to say because a) he is warning about the dangers of the dark side and b) by later revealing to him that Darth Vader is his father, or rather Anakin is his father, and Darth Vader is what is left of him, that Luke would then distinguish between Vader and Anakin as two separate beings, yet the same being all at once, and that you can't win by beating Darth Vader, because that would mean killing your own father, but there are alternatives to fighting, such as self-defense and in doing so if you can cause Vader to find that bit of himself that is still good, that is still Anakin, through his son, because surely he wouldn't kill his own son*, then you have a living father, rather than a dead one. So I think it works.

*And he has the chance to kill Luke in ESB. But he does not do it.

But the key is, that Luke has to come to this realization on his own. Obi-Wan and Yoda are too wise to tell his this point blankly. They trust the Force and they trust that Luke will get it. A little worried they become when he rushes off to Cloud City, and rightly so, but when he returns, they see his maturation and they know he is ready...or almost ready.

Because as I've said, Obi-Wan seems to think that the Emperor has already won. But notice how he says it in reaction to what Luke says. I think Obi-Wan is saying that the Emperor has already won, not because Luke says he can't kill his own father, but because Luke assumes that to win, he must kill his own father. Nowhere do Obi-Wan and Yoda tell him to do such a thing. He assumes it. And that is what dismays Obi-Wan. So what does Obi-Wan do? He tells Luke more about his father, Anakin and how he was good. He plants hope in Luke without directly coming out and saying so because he knows that Luke is more likely to follow through with saving his father if it is something Luke conceives on his own accord, not something another person tells him to do. But Obi-Wan does give Luke a few nudges in the right direction. But a final warning he gives Luke: to bury his feelings, lest they are used against him.

So, it's definitely a theory that turns the Original Trilogy upside down for a lot of people, but [Princess Leia]somehow I've always believed it, always known[/Princess Leia]...ever since the first time I saw RotJ. Love is the answer. You will see Obi-Wan trying to stop Vader with physical force in Revenge of the Sith, but to no avail. You will see Yoda doing the same with Sidious, but to no avail. They will come to realize they can not be beaten by traditional methods, and they will take notes from friends and old masters such as Padme and Qui-Gon and try a new strategy...a new hope.

Now you might be clutching a weathervane with two arms and one hand, screaming "it's not true, it's impossible" and contorting your face like a bloody chipmunk, but...

Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

 

Big B, I get the impression that you quite like Star Wars. Nice analysis, can't wait for Episode III. Go the Force.

 

Yeah - but the way he whined was just so utterly pathetic and lame - mostly because he has the acting skills of roadkill.
'And not just the men!' *sobangstlookgimmepity* 'But the women!' *morelook*. 'And the children too!' *Oooharen'tItragicBoohoohoo*

They could have milked a scene like that for a good deal of progression-to-evilness, but instead, well, it seems like an angsty whinging teenager who can't act and has a really crap accent.

 

I just saw the theatrical trailer for the first time. I was completely blown away!!!! I think this one is going to be awesome!!!!!

I wonder if Jar Jar's going to get a laser bolt to the brain?!?!?

May cannot get here soon enough!!!!!!!!

 

I'm quite eager to see Episode 3. And, after some thought, and a little rethought after Big B's posts, I'm sorta seeing the prequels in a new light. I enjoyed them as movies, but as Star Wars movies, I didn't think they lived up to their name. With the Phantom Menace I was somewhat alienated by Jar Jar (who wasn't?) and the terribly cartoony antics of young Anakin.
Along comes Attack of the Clones. Better than TPM as both a film in general and as Star Wars, IMO, but the love story between Padme and Anakin, to me, seemed far too forced. It was like we were seeing bits of another film in there for parts of it. The writing for their 'romance' dragged the movie down as a whole, as well.

Even with those notable exceptions, I did enjoy the prequels, though not nearly as much as Episodes 4-6. Revenge of the Sith looks quite promising.

[/my $0.02]

 

Man Big B, you truly have faith in Star Wars and sees exactly what you want to see, no matter how much things must be twisted to fit into the view.

As for III, well it is really for this one I have been excited since I heard that they would a new trilogy. I have been looking forward for more or less ten years now to a Star Wars movie where everynoe dies or changes and where there are no happy ending and where the "bad" side wins. Too few such movies are made and I have always liked the "evil" side in Star Wars more than the "good". The bad guys just get all the cool stuff and most of the cool people, ties are cooler than x-wings, storm troopers are way cooler than rebel scum troops and nothing is cooler than a star destroyer. Palpatine is the only consistently cool and appealing character in all six movies, too bad he gets such an unworthy end. For me it will feel good to see the Emperor restoring order in the galaxy and eradication those hippy jedis and their self righteous meddling.

 

Correction: nothing is cooler than a light-sabre.

 

No, Star Destroyers piss on light-sabres when it comes to coolness even if light-sabres are cool as well. Heck, even TIE's are cooler than light-sabres.

 

The Super Star Destroyer is God made flesh. Er...made durasteel. Whatever.

TIEs are pretty lame, though.

 

Not cool: TIE Fighter.
Slightly Cooler: X-wing.
Average Coolness: Death Star.
Better-Than-Average Coolness: Star Destroyer (I assume we're talking about Victory-class Star Destroyers, rather than the Imperator- and Imperator-II-class Star Destroyers that appeared in the movies).
Really Cool: Executor-class Star Destroyer
Coolest: Lightsabre

And how the hell are TIEs cooler than X-wings? They're faster, yes, and more manoeuvrable in space, but take them into an atmosphere and they're basically a fast-moving brick. An X-wing, on the other hand, isn't quite as speedy or manoeuvrable, but it retains that manoeuvrability in an atmosphere. TIEs have no shields, unlike X-wings, and lasers are their only weapons, unlike an X-wing. TIE armour is really weak, too. There, I said it. If we're talking about the TIE Defender, though, even though it was never seen in the movies, then all my arguments are thrown out the window as the TIE Defender is the single best starfighter ever produced, except for hits exhorbitant production cost.


And very, very well done, Big B. You are impressive... Most impressive. How long did it take you to write that? An hour?

 

Yeah, it probably took an hour, but when I get going on Star Wars, time matters not. Ditto on the X-Wing vs. TIE debate, yes TIE's are pretty to look at, but so are X-Wings, and when it comes to flying one, well, it's like a ship designed for expendable clones or a ship that desperate freedom fighters were able to scrounge up. Neither are perfect, but I would prefer an X-Wing.

Honestly joacquin, I think it can be interpreted either way: the whole did Obi-Wan and Yoda actually want Luke to kill Vader or turn him back. Although the more you look at it, it's not so much twisting as it is looking on the facts with freshness and not just going by old assumptions. Either way, it remains to be seen which side Episode III favors: pro-kill Vader, pro-redeem Vader, or a third choice: continue to make it just ambigous enough that it could be either way and the audience just has to decide for themselves.

I'm definitely excited about Episode III. People talk about "getting their hopes up". I guess the closest thing I can relate to that is I won't be upset if this film doesn't oust Empire Strikes Back from my number one favorite Star Wars spot, because Empire, IMHO is the elite of the elite, as in the star of an already star saga of movies. But I won't be dissapointed if it does either. See, one of the awesome things about Empire is that it is so epic in such an unconventional way. Episode III promises to be epic, but I think it might be more conventional. Empire supremely mastered the balance of action, tension, emotion, character, plot, tone, etc. We'll see if Episode III can follow suit. Lucas has said Revenge of the Sith is most like Empire than it is any other Star Wars movie, so that bodes well. And it does start with a big action battle sequence and move into a more personal climax. I do have a good feeling it will oust Phantom Menace as my second favorite Star Wars film though overall. Well, to me it's not a question of whether Episode III will be good or not, it's just "how" good.

 

Bah. Most TIEs aren't even pretty to look at. Fighters and Bombers are eyesores.

Interceptors, now. Interceptors are cool.

 

I'd take the falcon any day...

When I was a kid my favorite ship was the Y-Wing. They're clunky but cool!

I watched TPM and the clone wars dvd this weekend, and I have to admit - Phantom Menace is aging well!

It sets up the story pretty well, Jar Jar, although tough to swallow as a character, is basically responsible for saving Naboo by uniting the Nubians with the Gungans and for giving rise to the empire by initiating the vote to give Palpatine emergency powers...Lucas is a great storyteller!

Also watching Jake Lloyd as the cute little ragamuffin in TPM, it's chilling when you know who he becomes. Star Wars rocks! And in a little under 40 days I can die happy!!!