buckle my swash

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Is anyone playing swashbuckler? This is the greatest class ever. I have achieved supreme RPG satisfaction. Backstab, schmackstab. Who needs it?! It's like getting a badass fighter/thief who doesn't eat XPs. A beautiful, beautiful thing.

 

No, but I have to try it. Evil swashbuckler with all the nice evil NPCs that my alignmentist cavalier won't use. This game needs a decent thief anyhow and swashbuckler is the only kit that doesn't have penalties to thief skills. I worry about the hit points though. A lot of potion gulping, is it? Another thing, if swashbucklers are, as the manual says "the epitome of charm and grace", why haven't they got higher minimum charisma (3 is minimum)?

 

I wonder why they made the swashbuckler into a thief kit? It's in the Complete Fighter's Handbook. The Three Musketeers would be fighters, after all.

 

It is also in the Complete Thieves Book...the two are different kinds of swashbucklers according to it--they have different attitudes or something like that.

 

You're right a great class. I took my swashbuckler to 10th level, and then dual-classed her to a Mage. Boy is she great now.

 

Yep, it's in both books, available to both classes but has different styles i think. Either way it was the most popular kit for my players to take in the games i ran. Definately one to play in BG2.

 

I played the game a second time through with a swashbuckler, all the way to level 23. I agree that it's a VERY fun kit, but it does suffer from one severe backdrop:
While a well-built, high level swashbucker can dish it out in melee like a fighter, there's no way he can take as much.

The class suffers from a severe lack of hitpoints, which makes many fights rather less than heroic...
And there's a limit to the AC you can reach in leather armor, too

With only a D6 and no more than +2 additional hp per level from con bonus, the swashbucker will be about 40 hitpoints behind a fighter of equal level. It HURTS when you can fight just as well as the tin can Paladin, but drop after the second unlucky hit you take

In many fights, a 60 hitpoint thief simply has to stay behind, because every accident will be the last one. I dunno how often I had to reload because of some silly Abu Dhazi's going off, a melee enemy scoring a crit, or a pot coming just AFTER the second hit.
It's not a prob for a normal thief, but a swashbucker who's all bravado and 2 swords flashing should just not stay away from the fray...

 

If only there were chandiliers to swing from too, and barrels to kick down stairs while shouting 'AHA!', that'd even the odds

 

Am I the only one that wonders why in the world they took away backstabbing from this kit. Why do I want a thief that fights kinda like a fighter when he can't go in there and backstab for massive amounts. I was thinking about using one of the thief kits, but none of them seem decent. I decided to dual an ordinary fighter to an ordinary thief. I think he'll come out better than the swashbuckler.

Also, what do people like in the Kensai D thief. I have a Kensai D mage, and he works well because of the robe of Venca(SP) that has AC 5. Without being able to wear armor, is a Kensai D theif able to make through a tough fight without running for cover.

Lastly, why waste a cool name like assasin on a weak kit like that. Should have given him more proficiencies or better backstabbing or something of the such.

 

Question about dual classing-

why does everybody but me like dualing classes? i.e. a kensai into a mage? you get the kensai's hitpoints sure but you dont get to keep the awesome weapon proficiences or anything do you? Fill my jug, stuff my gills...oh just explain it all to me please.

 

I'm in agreement with you Crawl. I cannot understand the Kensai/Thief combination. In order to 'deliver' damage from a sword or the like -you have to be up 'close' and personal with the opponent. Having 'no' armor at that close range is a big "NO WAY" for me.

I've read numerous posts that state how awesome Kensai's are when delivering damage (kai power). But range attacks and a few well placed blows to a 'naked' Kensai body can be delivered 'right back at ya' and you'll find yourself staring at the "upstreached hand with the options to LOAD or CANCEL" in no time. There are too many melee fights that are tough enough to handle, much less without a -10 to -15AC that a frontline Fighter can achieve. Afterall there are 'modifiers' that Full Plate and a Shield gives that a 'naked' Fighter does not have (modifiers vs Slashing, Missile, etc type weapons).

Those modifiers make an Armored Fighter just that much harder to hit with weapons or missiles. But 'to each his own'! BTW my current Fighter/Thief carries a Full set of Plate and a Shield in his inventory for the 'rough fights'.

 

Elverath, dualing is different from being multi-class. With dualing, you get to keep weapon proficiencies or any other special skills for your original class. BUT, they get taken away until your second class reaches one level beyond the level you dualed at.

Clear as mud? Here's the example. Say you're a level 9 Kensai with 5 pips in longsword. Then, you dual class to mage. Effectively, you'll be a new character. You'll only get the mage's weapon skill points. And you won't earn any more hit points until...

When your mage reaches level 10 (since that's 1 more than 9), you become the super badass kensai/mage. You'll get all of those original weapon proficiency points back. You'll start earning hit points when you level up again. You'll have all the skills of both classes. But your skills from the original class, kensai, will never change. You'll be a level 9 kensai from then on out.

It takes some patience to dual a character, especially in BGII, where you start with so many XPs already. But, if you do it right, it can yield some amazing characters.

In PnP, my favorite character type was a fighter that I dualed to cleric as soon as he reached level 2. I would start the character with 2 points each in mace and sling. Dual at level 2. As soon as he reaches cleric level 3, you've got a cleric with 18/xx strength, specialization in his most effective weapons, and d10 hit dice. Nifty.

 

sminnis, looks like we have the same preference for fighter dual cleric. And we know how hard it is to find GOOD clerical help in BG2 these days!

You forgot to mention to Elverath that one of the best things in dualling when there is an XP cap, is that the second class can reach his full potential. This is especially useful for spellcasters. In BG2, a multiclass cleric such as Aerie can only reach level 14. A dual cleric can reach level 20 compared to a pure cleric level 21.

A dual Mage can reach Level 17 (even when dualled from Fighter level 9), the same as a pure Mage, while at the same time enjoy the first class's hit points, weapon proficiencies, kit abilities and access spells up to Level 7 (or is it 8? I didn't get a chance to try out Imoen as she joined late and did not achieve the full XP). A multiclass (2 class) Mage can go up to Level 13 and access up to Level 6 spells only. After level 9, additional hit points when levelling up is not much difference for all classes anyway.

[This message has been edited by Ganz (edited November 08, 2000).]

 

How many times must I repeat myself?
A Kensai/mage can have a great AC if you have an Archmage's robe or the robe from the mage stronghold quest. What do you think Stoneskin, protection from weapons, mirror image and blur are for?
A kensai thief is no less magnificent. Activate your Kai ability, hide in shadows and then backstab for awesome amounts of damage. Give the kensai/thief some dragon scale armor and you got one serious badass. It's almost a superior version of the Stalker kit.

 

Can a Kensai/Thief wear armor ??

 

Thanks for the help


Question for Shura or whoever knows-
what do mage robes look like on fighter/mage, theif/mage,whatever/mage? does it look like it does on a normal mage? i think that a fighter dual weilding 2 katanas would look neat dressed in an adventurers robe.

 

What?!! The XP cap does not limit the dualed second class? I thought I read (another topic?) that the XP applies to duals the same as multis..the total XP in both classes together limits the advancement in the new class. Did I misread or misremember (the memory is the second to go, can't remember what's first)

 

Shura:

Firstly let me say that I love Kensai D Mage. With that robe from the adventurers mart plus the Katna sold there, and a ring of protection +1, 18 dex, their armor class is just fine. Throw in adjeth the drinker and a ring of regeneration, plus some defensive spells, and the Kensai D Mage I'm playing with hardly ever needs healing, plus he can cast spells VERY quickly and deals out a lot of damage. I am a big fan of that class.
Secondly, I was under the impression that a Kensai D Thief could wear no armor whatsoever. If they can wear the same armor types as a thief(especailly scale aromor), I'd like to know. If they can, I will definately take back my statement implying the class is weak.
Incidently, mage robes don't look like a robe at all on a fighter mage. They only change the coloration of the character's natural clothing. If you have shadow keeper, you can change the look of the fighter mage from that of fighter to that of a mage. Then the mage robe will look like a mage robe should.

 

Mobeus, you read correctly. BG2's XP cap of 2,950,000 does apply to dual classes as well as multi-classes. Dual classes has to take its total XPs into account too. To illustrate, let's compare the fighter/mage scenario.

In a multi-class, the maximum XP for each class advancing at the same time is 1,475,000. This means the fighter half reaches level 13 (XP 1,250,000 required; next level 1,500,000 unattainable). The mage half also reaches level 13 (XP1,125,000 required; next level 1,500,000 unattainable).

If I start a fighter in BG2 and immediately dual to a mage, I would have on record expended only a measly 64,000 XP for a level 7 fighter. This leaves me 2,886,000 XP for my mage to level up to 17 (only 2,625,000 XP required). Even if I dual at fighter level 9 (250,000 XP required), I can still reach mage level 17.

In BG1, I normally start a fighter and immediately dual to a spellcaster upon reaching level 2. In BG2, I have the luxury to do it at level 7 or higher. Dualling classes has its pros and cons and personnally I prefer this option over multi-class. Different players have different styles. Some people prefer the fighter/aggressive style and some people like to cast magic (even this is divided into offensive and defensive magic).

Hope this clarifies your query.

 

Thankx, Ganz. Greatly appreciate the validation. Nice to know I've not totally lost it. After thinking about it, I think I read it during a test character created just to dual. When I selected the dual option, the instruction screens that came up had all that good info. Another thing I think was there was the requirement of 17 or better in the new class primary stats. The thing that bothered me was that this infor should have been in the manual, not in the interim (or maybe both) screens. I mean, how could you plan to dual at level 12 or 13 (like I see a lot of people doing) when you need to know these things at original character creation?? (so you can adjust those stats to allow your expected dual at the right time) Unless potions or items that increase abilities count for dual stats, but I thought temporary boosts were ignored.

Anyway, thanks again.