Advice on class selection

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In my current game I have a dwarven cleric of Tempus who I use as a secondary tank. My initial plan was to have him take 4 levels of fighter for weapon specialization then finish out the game taking all cleric levels.

Now I'm not sure. My other single classed cleric seems to be able to handle all of the parties healing/divine spell casting needs and the divine buff spells that only effect the caster don't seem like that great (Iron Skins aside).

So my question is this: should I finish out the game taking fighter or cleric levels for him?

Thanks in advance,

Timoteo

 

If I were you I'd take Cleric levels since it will pay off when your caster's level will be high enough for his buffs to be really powerful. A high level cleric is better than a high level fighter in almost every situation.

 

Taking cleric levels is the powergaming choice, but what will yield the most fun for you you have to decide for yourself.

 

Caradhras, kmonster,

I initially I thought the same as you, but when I started looking closely at the spell descriptions I noticed that many buffing spells can be cast on characters other than the caster (Champions Strength, Divine Shell, and Elemental barrier for example). The only exceptions that I can think of are Draw Upon Holy Might and Iron Skins.

Am I missing some thing?

Timoteo

 

You're basically right. There's a few useful spells that can only be cast by the cleric, but I honestly can't remember them off the top of my head. The basic trade-off for you is:

Fighter Benefits:
More hit points, better base attack bonus (1 BAB/LvL vs. 3/4 BAB/LvL)

Cleric Benefits:
Spell Casting

Take your pick.

If it was me though, I'd take the cleric. The cleric's loss in BaB and hit points, while noticable, doesn't seem to be worth losing out on the spells to me. Another healer is always nice. Also, some of the spells are really only useful while in combat. For a single cleric to tear through all of the buffs and summons can take a while.

 

Buffing will more than compensate for the difference in HP, Bab and feats. Except if all your magic is dispelled (and that's why having a higher level is better).

With a look at domain spells only, I'd say having a high level cleric is much more useful than a fighter who won't be able to buff himself to inflict more damage, protect or heal himself.

Sure the other cleric can do that as well but having two clerics with different roles in the party is a nice perk.

 

The "holy power" spell alone will help more than extra fighter levels, especially when facing bosses with damage reduction. There are other self-buffs at higher levels.

 

Caradhras, that is a good point; I never thought about the enemies dispelling my buffs.

DrEm314, good point as well. With one cleric, my first casted buffs will start to wear off before I have a chance to finish them all!

kmonster, I don't know how I missed the holy power spell, but it is indeed a good self buff that really changes the calculation.

Thank you everyone for the great advice!


Timoteo

 

The crap thing is the xp penalty for the dwarf taking Cleric over Fighter levels. I am using the same mix now,for Role Playing(there is a cool Dwarf pic to match). It is adviced 9th Cleric spells are not as good so for 30th max levels I am trying: 15th Cleric/5 Fighter(3 feats&Weapon Spec+Max damage!)/5Druid(Alignment Neutral. 2nd Lvl spells&shape change)/5 Barbarian(Rogue..not sure?)(Evasion & Speed bonus). My goal to reach BAB for 4 attacks/round. 15C=+11,5F&Barb=+10,5Dd=+3,so +24BAB at max level.

Feat "Maximized Attacks" requires Weapon Spec 2 weapons(Cleric of Tempus gives bonus feat-Axe)and Concentration skill '4'(Cleric/Druid OK for this).
Feat "Improved Critical" needs BAB +8(Cleric 11 gives this in your case),so F/Barb helps earlier.
Feat "Heroic Inspiration" Need 1 level of Barbarian.
Feat "Weapon Specialization" Need 4th Fighter.

Hope this helps. As a note,because of level squatting(stress!!!)and xp penalties,I do 5/5/5/5 in each class before going to Cleric full time,so I have then 8(?) levels (C7-15 onwards)-20% as a Cleric lol.

 

Your build isn't optimal. I'd put at least the 5th fighter level into cleric or druid, since fighter level 5 offers neither a saving throw bonus nor a bonus feat, so the extra spells and better spell effects are far more useful.
I'd also consider taking all cleric and fighter levels first, you won't get a level penalty before you take levels of a 3rd class.
I'd even take 20 cleric levels. The 9th level spells are not earthshaking but they don't hurt either and when you look at the spell table you'll see how many extra level 4-8 spells you get per day for the additional levels. The better spell effects because of higher level do help too.
I doubt that the few druid levels will help considerably. Level 1-3 druid spells at low casting level aren't so great compared to the level 9 spells your other party members will be able to cast. The only real benefit you get is the +4 AC bonus if you cast barksin at druid level 6.

 

I agree with kmonster. I played a half-orc barbarian/Battleguard of Tempus -- a great tank and the cleric spells are incredibly powerful. A dwarven fighter/Battleguard of Tempus would be even more powerful. I think you actually weaken the character by going more than two classes.