Is Daystar bugged?

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I know that daystar only hits as +2, but in the description it says it has thaco +4 and damage +4 against evil creatures(and almost all monsters are evil). So it seems to me like this is the most powerful longsword in the game. Even equalizer doesn't have +4 thaco. But I enabled the "to hit messages" and it looks like daystar only has +2 thaco even against evil creatures. Is this a bug or what?

 

Have you checked with a Paladin or somebody that all the monsters are actually evil? In BG1 I found that a surprising number were neutral.

 

Daystar definetly acts THAC0+4 and damage of 1d8+4 vs evil opponents (unless you're hitting undead with it which makes the damage even better).

Describe exactly who did you hit with it and what was displayed on the screen.

 

The daystar IS bugged. It doesnt work better with undead and it sure as hell dont hit as +4 against undead. Kangaxx is totally immune to daystar. The only use for that weapon is the sunray. Nothing else matters. I have no research on this but after extensive playing I cant see that that the describtion is accurate.

 

compare your 'to hit rolls' with a normal longsword+2.. dont forget that other things effect thaco like str bonuses etc..

irt joacqin..

its not meant to hit kangaax.. it only counts as +2 enchantment.. u need +4 weapon to hit him..

 

The +4 modifier should apply to what it can hit as well as THAC0, and I don't really think that Kangaxx is good or neutral, so it is bugged indeed. If game mechanics forbids to change the weapon enchantment rank according to enemies, players should have been advised (just like in the Equalizer's description).

[This message has been edited by Israfel (edited April 16, 2002).]

 

Okay, I found out the creature I hit wasn't evil, but I experimented some more with a creature that is evil. I created a werewolf (werewo01) and put it in my party and it's chaotic evil. I attacked it with my thief. With a normal longsword it said ... +4 = ... This is because of other items I have. With Ras, Namarra, Equalizer, and Dragonslayer it said +6, but Equalizer should be +7. With Daystar and Blade of Roses it's +7, and Daystar should be +8.

 

For those who thing it is bugged because it can't hit Kangaxx - that is blindshot pals!
Daystar is enchanted +2 by all means and only it's THAC0 and damage gets better against some specific groups of creatures.
There is absolutely no ENCHANTMENT+4 against undead nor against anything. Or if there is, where is it written? And Kangaxx can be hit only by +4 and higher enchanted weapons.

"The +4 modifier should apply to what it can hit as well as THAC0". That is probably true in p'n'p ad&d.
But BG2 is based on ad&d and for sakes of game balance those rules are not just like inside your PHB.
One of many exceptions to this rule is Mace of Disruption+2 that is actually enchanted+5, which is also not a bug.

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This is what I get with Daystar and ordinary Long Sword when I hit Edwin with it (note that I've unequipped everything from me and from Edwin).
x+6=y - hit rolls for Long Sword (SW1H04)
x+10=y - hit rolls for Daystar (SW1H31)

Try this yourself if you don't believe me! There must be a difference of 4 points, not 3 as you get. Class I've used to test is F/M/T double-proficient in longswords.
I've even tested it against console summoned werefolf (WEREWO01) like you did and I got +2 when using normal longsword, but +6 with Daystar. (note that werewolf is immune to normal weapons, but rolls will still be displayed).

The only way you can get the hitting evil creatures with lower damage than it should be is if you mess the file EVILDAM2.EFF. Check if this file is present in your override folder. If it is, it is not a part of SoA but part of some mod or ToB.

And is your game patched by the way?



[This message has been edited by Extremist (edited April 17, 2002).]

 

Hmmm... This is really strange. The first time I tried it was with a halfling assassin, chaotic good, 1 * in longsword, and it said +3. Then I tried it again with all my other characters and it's +4 in their hands. I have the patch, and no mods or ToB.

 

Now it is definetly strange even more. Assassin should already have some Hit and Damage bonuses as class IIRC, but from this you say it looks as he got penalties.
Since I've never played with assassin, would you be so kind to zip and mail me your game with assassin? This definetly got me interested.

 

Okay, I just sent you the saved game.

 

For god's sake, I tested your game and the fresh new game with assassin started...
...bugs, bugs, everywhere *shrug*

The problem is not with Daystar but with Assassins' "advantage" of bonus to hit +1.

In case of Daystar vs normal weapon it works like this in your game:

NPC has base to hit +3
Class Assassin Advantage to hit is +1
So normal weapon gets to hit +3 +1= +4

But damned Daystar cancels to hit +1 and grants it's to hit vs evil +4
So you have only +3 +4 = +7

This is not the case only with Daystar. Every single weapon with this to hit vs some sort of creatures bonus like Daystar (Equalizer, Flame Tongue, Bastard Sword +1,+3 vs. Shapeshifters, Sword of Balduran, etc) will cancel class to hit +1 advantage!


How did I experimented? I altered this class advantage bonus to be as to hit +5 (edited HITPLUS1.EFF file to behave that way). And what result I got with this?
Normal sword had x+8=y damage. Daystar had x+7 damage!!! Daystar removed +5 bonus and applied it's own +4 instead.

Is this fixable I don't know. I've tried to fix it instantly, but I've failed. I've tried to break effect above, the spell that grants advantage to assassin (SPCL421.SPL) and I've even tried with hex editing different parameters in saved game. Nothing worked!
I haven't tried all possibilities, but it looks to me as a problem that can't be solved just by override file. I mean, I do think that the problem is within the code (BGmain.exe). Of course, I'll try some more things before I finally give up and if I manage to fix it, I'll post it.

But still I wonder how come this wasn't noticed before by our resident thief player?

 

How did I manage to do 1044 damage with the Sunburst from the Daystar. I used it on a pack of Vampires; Most got damaged to the tune of about 15 with 40 extra damage. Some got the first blast with 1044 extra - instant Vampire toast. My Paladin thinks this must be some form of Devine intervention - but I suspect a bug. I have no patches, mods or chears installed.

 

BTW, another thing to add to the comment: Daystar does not penetrate the weapon resistances of demons: they need a +3 or more, and iirc daystar does not damage them. Now if they're neutral...

(off-topic) Hey, what was Grace's alignment from Planescape?

 

The G3 Tweak Pack includes a component that makes weapons like Daystar consistent. All +x/+y weapons get the higher bonus as their enchantment level--the Hammer +1/+4 against Giantkin is treated as a +4 weapon; Bone Club +2/+3 vs Undead is +3, etc.--except Daystar and the Bastard Sword +1/+3 vs Shapeshifters. The component adjusts them all to be consistent.

This is a long way to explain that it makes Daystar a +4 weapon so it can be used against demons and Kangaxx.