A sorcerer with a theme: spell list!

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OK this has been debated for ages, I know, but I need your ideas a little for some trouble. I plan to play a sorcerer for my next run, and I need some ideas for his spell list.

I already know what to pick most of the time, BUT there are somethings which confuse me. I need your ideas.

About the theme:

I plan to use a troubled, CN and stressed sorcerer, who wants to protect his life and his friends. So he has good buff spells and wil maniacally blast enemies when faced with danger. He will also focus on scary necromantic spells, he looks harmless and adorable, but his powers are sure scary and disturbing. (Rule:no heavy summonings though, at least till I get Planetar)

Level 1

-Magic Missile (out of question)
-Protection from Evil (life saver when you face -Improved Pit Fiends)
-Spook (its nice save penalty is worth it!)
-Friends (this is very useful for dialogues and buying, and for tricking people that he is harmless and innocent!)

Now, for my last pick, do you think I should get Chromatic orb or Burning hands? Burning hands do ncie damage and is an efficient troll killer. But chromatic orb has good special effects you all know. It does acid damage and thus can still kill trolls, right? What do you suggest?

Lvl 2- (most of the spells here would be buffs)

-Mirror Image (this is highly useful)
-Strength (I want some buff spells and this is good. I will have absymal STR so this can help.)
-Web (this is nice always, for trap tactics)
-Glitterdust (handy for those with SI:divination, or revealing invisible Spirit trolls. Or shoudl I get Detect Invisible?)

For the final pick, what do you suggest? Blur is good as it stacks in my game, but it is cheese. So...Resist Fear is an essential buff in most fights if you do not have a cleric. Should I get it? Melf's acid arrow and Aganazar's scorcher are not that hot to me. What do you suggest?

3rd level:

-Skull trap (damage is awesome! Necro theme!)
-Slow (saving penalty is great!)
-Vampiric Touch (I love this spell! It is scary and useful in tight combat situations! Ah, and part of the theme!)
-Flame Arrow (this is close to last picks as it packs a heavy punch at highest levels)
-Remove Magic (this is chosen as last as it is only sueful at highest levels, but essential.)

As you see I did not go for MMMs. Are they really neccesary? I will get good ranged weapons from BoM mod anyway. And when I get SoM I NEVER want to use the spell. Do you have any other ideas?

4th lvl:

-Stoneskin (but ofcourse!)
-Greater Malison (this is essential)
-Emotion (after a GM this spell literally kills who fail saving throws, putting them out of fight. It also has a Resist Fear effect on party, but I doubt it. Its misery and trouble theme is cool too!)
-Ice Storm (I love the cold damage spells for personal preference, and I want to stick a lot of these in Spell Sequencers for fun!)
-Farsight (this is needed for effective use of Project Image)

This lvl was easy to pick, do you have any other ideas?

5th lvl (things start to get hard, there are so many good spells here)

-Sunfire (it bypasses MR, perfect for golems, drows, and skeleton warriors)
-Breach (nuff said)
-Spell Immunity (most needed buff for effective spell caster)
-Lower Resistance (handy)
-Cone of Cold (this does HEAVY damage. Way more damaging than Sunfire at their highest. 20d4+20 damage means 40-100 dmg in a shot. Three of theses in a Spell Trigger do 120-300 dmg and can slay an army of Beholders. And it would be fun too!)

Do you reccomend Chaos? That is a good spell but I already have Emotion. Do I need it? I don't think it fits in the theme too. It is great for disrupting enemy AI, particularly prized when facing Dragons or other tough enemies though another member can cast it when really needed. I dont have the spell slot for it anyway. What do you suggest? Animate Dead is not chosen as I do not want summons for this build, but do you think it would be fun/suitable to the theme? Which spell should I delete?

6th lvl (hardest choices around)

-Pro from MW (this is the spell to have to survive hardest enemies:Improved Bodhi, for example.)
-Death Spell (this is cool, and fits the theme. It slays some annoying enemies and summons. But should I get Death Fog instead? As it is highly useful against enemy liches. Three of these in a Spell Trigger will kill an improved lich in a few rounds:they will fail to cast anything and take 24 dmg per round. What do you say?)
-Disintegrate (I love this spell and find it coool and useful! But I will also get FoD, so do I really need this?)
-Imp. Haste (a very good buff for everyone! A PI can Imp Haste everybody including summons prior to a major fight, and everyone benefits from it!)
-True Sight (by the time I get it, other members of my party can cast it. Hopefully)

This is a very hard choice. I want Death Fog and Pro from Magic Energy is very useful too. What do you suggest?

7th lvl:

-Spell Sequencer:3 skull traps, 3 flame arrows, or one web plus 2 Ice Storms. This spell has many uses.
-PI: (I will not use it cheesily, though the spell begs for it!=
-FoD (I love this spell too much! And part of the theme!)
-Ruby Ray (essential and powerful, bypasses SI:Abjuration and can dispel Spell trap IIRC)
-Mordy Sword (this is no considered a summoning spell as it is evocation. But useful in most situations)

Do you have any ideas?

8th lvl

-ABDHW (biggest baddest necromantic armageddon. Fun too!)
-Spell Trigger (hmm. 3 Sunfires or Cone of Colds are good suprises when I am in trouble.)
-Pierce Shield (essential, powerful, useful against Demogorgon)
-Pro from Energy (good buff, handy for extra resistances, again PI can cast on every one!)

Then what should I pick? Power word:Blind? Do you reccomend Bigby? Or...you know, Incendiary Fog has many uses and does devastating damage to targets if they stay in it. Symbol:stun looks particularly hot too!

9th lvl.

-Time Stop (hail to the king!)
-Chain Contingency (best of them all)
-WoB (that is cool. And part of the theme!)
-Energy Drain. (Why? I think, draining the levels of a single enemy instantly via Imp. Alacrity and continous casting of this spell would be cool. Sorcs can cast lots of these, and I can literally drain 12 levels or more from a tough target like Imp. Yaga Shura in a single round:And, PI can cast it for me! )
-Shape Change:For personal fun. I will get it in the middle-end of ToB anyway. GWW form is useful for quick healing, and Golem can tank spell casters. And, MF has its own uses. Do you get XP for victims you kill via brain-eating? I never seem to get any. WHY?)

I do not like Spell Strike, I do not need it when I have Ruby Ray and Pierce Shield. Imprisonment is a big no-no:I have it nerfed by a mod so that it is only a longer version of Maze which bypasses MR. Who needs pathetic Meteor Swarm, )one mod changed it to 4 fireballs, each 10d4, save vs spell for half) I will get Dragon's Breath AND Improved Comet anyway. Other spells look dull. (BBoD:joke when you have SoM or Energy Blades at your disposal)

Any ideas for the theme? Please help me in some areas I have confusion with. Also, in which order do you reccomend these spells?

Thanks in advance. Have fun!

[ October 16, 2006, 10:27: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

I have a few thought, I guess:

Level 1 - Burning Hands is a bit mediocare in comparison to MM. By the time you get it, you'll get acid damage from Chromatic Orb- either will kill trolls, but the Orb will do so from a distance.

Level 2 - I'd take Glitterdust over Detect Invisibility. Other characters can cast the latter and the former will be more useful throughout the game.
Resist Fear is essential if you are going solo, but as you appear to be taking a party, Remove Fear can be taken by the party cleric.
Blur stacking may be cheese, but that doesn't mean you have to stack it- you could take it and only use one casting at a time.

Level 3 - Pretty solid here. The only point I will make is that I prefer MMM to Vampiric Touch, but if you are going to have good ranged attacks anyway, you should be fine as you are.

Level 4 - You seem happy with this, so that may be for the best. I'm more inclined to take a Fireshield than Ice Storm (as with protections up, enemies will kill themselves trying to get to your sorcerer and enemies have a habit of walking out of my Ice Storms) but this is a minor quibble.

Level 5 - I'm more of a fan of Chaos than Cone of Cold. This way I don't destroy treasure for one thing! Besides, while a CoC sequencer will take out a line of Beholders, a Chaos sequencer will take out all of them in the area.

Level 6 - If you are set on FoD, then Disintegrate is not as relevant- especially as it competes for a precious level 6 slot. You could exchange it for Death Fog. Deciding between Protection From Magical Energy and True Sight I would leave until you get to that level and then judge which would benefit the party the most.

Level 7 - Good selections here, although you miss out on Power Word: Stun.

Level 8 - Incendiary Fog may do a fair bit of damage, but if you take Death Fog earlier, then why bother with a spell inflicting damage that many enemies are resistant to? I'm a fan of Power Word: Blind. After all, if they can't see you then they aren't going to be hitting you all that often.

Level 9 - I'm not keen on Energy Drain being here. Why use Timestop to cast this when you could be casting other, more useful spells that don't take up more Timestop slots? Not sure what to suggest here, Power Word: Kill, perhaps?

Before I stop typing on this subject, I'd like to comment on the theme.

Firstly, who doesn't want to protect the lives of themselves and their friends, if they have to power to do so?
Secondly, I feel this opposes his manical casting- you have greater chance of hurting loved ones if you throw aroung magical blasts.
Thirdly, although you said 'heavy' summoning- I think it would be more themed if he didn't summon at all and left that to the rest of the party. This would include M's Sword and Planetars.

I believe it is hard to get a believable theme to a character through without accepting a few disadvantages. If you changed his concept to something like the following, then you may enjoy it slightly more:

A chaotic and random sorcerer (CN alignment) who cares greatly about the lives of those he befriends (lots of buffing) but suffers from a rather paranoid and morbid mental state (uses lots of necromancy). In fact, such is his paranoia that he refuses to summon creatures- he doesn't trust them or their motives- who knows where they originally came from or what they could do to his friends if they broke free of his control? While not completely abstaining from the use of area effect spells, he prefers to avoid them in favour of more specifical targetting spells so that he will remain in control at all times.

Anyway, I hope you find something useful amongst all that. Feel free to disregard anything I said about the concept- it is your character, not mine, at the end of the day.

 

No MMM?? Just keep in mind they are very useful all the way till energy blades, unless you want your sorc to be stuck with a measly 1 attack per round

 

That's fantastic! That was preciesly what I had in mind, thanks!

I will take CO then, eh? It has a nice special and it is ranged, so better than close-up Burning hands?

And, as part of the theme, he would not summon at all? Are Mordy Swords considered summons? They are more likely objects given life through the will and magic IMHO. Hmm, maybe I should delete summon Planetar spell from his spell book via SK when he gets it as a last HLA.

I like the idea of disintegrating monsters though. You are right, I will ditch Incendiary Fog and get something more useful. PW:Blind is a good candidate, is it better than Symbol:stun?

Should I completely ditch Death spell and get Death Fog instead? But it breaks the necromancy theme. Though the name 'Death' is still there. Death Fog also kills summoned creatures, but is less practical.

Then again, using multiple Death Fog is a tactic I use way too often against improved liches. Maybe I should try to find a new tactic, right? Yes, that would be fun!

What do you think?

@Mongerman

Well I will have icicles throwing dagger from BoM item pack (4 attack per round and do nice cold damage), and also I will have that Eye googer returning dart, (+5 dart, which allows STR bonus, and I have STR spell! Also, it has 3 attack/round AND has a chance to dispel magic) and some other darts in BoM look cool. I really do not need MMM that much, I think.

 

When you decided not to use MMM, I thought you must have some trick up your sleeve, but those darts...ouch!

Mordy's Sword I leave up to you. I'd personally not use any summoning at all- but with the way you envision the spell, I could see the character using it. If they are affected by anti-summon spells then they kinda are summons, I guess. *shrug* Totally your call.

You shouldn't need to delete Planetar, just not use it. OTOH, if you feel the temptation is too great then you should delete it!

When I think about it, Symbol: Stun is probably a bit better than Power Word: Blind. While the latter allows no saving throw, it has a much shorter duration.

I certainly wouldn't drop Death Spell. Another 6th level one for Death Fog maybe, but not Death Spell. But then, as you said, you could avoid it altogether and use different tactics- which is a way to make the game more challenging.

 

I'm liking some of these ideas but to be honest I just don't think there's enough spells for a themed spell list

 

No summons will make your life hard as a solo. You might at least want to consider charging up a Wand of Monster Summoning and using that for a while.

 

@Killjoy

No no no I am not going to solo! I just downloaded new NPCs, I would like to try them! Xan as a fighter/mage, evil and maniac bard Kido, and cake-loving sweet-heart Nathaniel. (I want to conclude his romance this time. ) I plan to take Immy as well, and a MP created PC too as usual, perhaps a C/T for a change. You see, my other party members can do all the summoning.

Should I ditch True Sight then? Xan, Imeon, Kido, and my C/T PC (not yet sure though, quite likely I will make a C/T.) can all cast it, (C/T can even detect illusions!) besides, book of infinite spells has its page..so..do I really need TS for a precious lvl 6 spell? What do you suggest?

Ahh, Mislead seems precious too! Level 6th is the hardest choice for me obviously, I am soo confused here!

About Mordy sword...well...if I ditch it, what should I get instead? Delayed Blast Fireball? I always fancied the spell. Or is Power word:stun THAT good? I think Prismatic Spray sucks big time though. What do you think?

Symbol stun is not party-friendly, and thus I may take PW:Blind insteadnly, I never used the spell before. Is it useful? How?

I want Energy Drain, as my PI can go, cast Improved Alacrity once and then unleash all Energy Drains on a tough enemy:this will cause the victim to lose 12 or more lvls in a single round. Rinse and repeat if necessary with another PI. Coolness! And it is unpleasant and scary necromancy!

Power word:kill, I use this spell on so few occasions:killing tough dragons (Improved Firkraag!) in a climactic way when they are near death, but I can always pump another damaging spell for the kill. (I killed Near Death Draconis when he was about to cast a Heal Spell on himself, that was way too cool!) Other than that, mages die to this spell:Immy killed Gromnir's mage pets with PW:Kill before they even know what hit them. (their heavy contingencies triggered on their cold dead bodies, heh) But I love WoB, and it is necromancy theme! I think Immy can cast PW:Kills for me when really needed.

 

I should have known. I knew you'd be mage-heavy, but didn't realise just how much of a spellcasting punch you were packing.

Since you have so many other spellcasters (and Glitterdust), then you could skip True Sight. This frees up space for Mislead if that's what you want most. Level 6 really is a hard level to choose for.

Not sure about level 7 as I've never had all that much success with Prismatic Spray or Delayed Blast Fireball. Power Word: Stun affects creatures of up to 90 HP. This means that if you sneak up on an enemy mage, then you can stun them instantly- thus taking them out of the fight long enough for your fighters to carve them up.

Power Word: Blind is fairly good, but it does have a short duration, so you have to make the most of it after casting. I notice that you didn't take Simulacrum, any particular reason? When cast by a PI you get another (slightly lower level) caster to bombard your opponents for free.

 

Aye, heavy and non-stop spell casting is the way to go for me! I like it when all of my party casts a different spell in the same round:it looks kinda cool. What's more, I can ditch Nathaniel in ToB to get Sarevok and to dual him to a mage! (IIRC his INT was high enough) that would be cool and an actual challenge!

I do not think I really need TS (true sight, NOT time stop!) urgently so I will look for somethinge else. Though Mislead is really not needed when I get my hands on SoM:when I can become invisible at will, who needs Mislead?

Simulacrum. I do not know. Never liked the spell for some reason. It produces a fairly weak caster where as PI can create a full powered one. Can it ever cast 9th lvl spells?



This can't be! I forgot the most powerful spell!

What about Wish? It is fun and powerful. I do not want to cheese it, but...it is WISH we are talking about, man! OK, Shapechange is out, I want WISH! Do you agree?

 

Yeah, Sarevok would make a pretty good mage when dualled- I've been meaning to do that for a while. Let me know if you feel it is worth it.

As for Simulacrum: you aren't likely to get a massively powerful caster from this spell, its main usage for me has been in a support role- I use to to chuck Flame Arrows, Emotions and the like around for some additional damage in heavy battles. Besides, you can have both a PI and a Simulacrum at the same time.

Mages gain 9th level spells at level 18- 3 million EXP. The Simulacrum is at 60% of your level, so I believe that when you hit 5 million EXP, then it will gain its first level 9 spell.

Wish, eh? Well, I've never been all that great a fan of Shapechange. I say go for it, dude.

 

Well, then I can get Simmy as my last pick, when the level is highest already. I am not sure though, I do not have much choice any way. Thank you for your invaluable ideas and help so far!

 

Heh, no problem.

Any time mate.

 

Hey, when you choose a specialist mage, like invoker or something, do those type spells do more damage? It just seems that conjurer/wild mage seems the only two types of specialists that gain and don't lose any spells of consequence.

 

*sigh*, another CN who's a loon

 

@ Tulipstomp: No, specialist spells don't inflict additional damage- you just get bonus spells slots. Conjurers lose True Sight (and Identify, though that is of less importance).

@ Morthond: Well that's how a lt of players percieve it. The in-game description implies instability. Besides paranoid =/= loon.

 

I would almost say go with a wild mage, if it werent a sorc.

A stressed and troubled man who seems to have trouble containing his own power may sometimes flip out and cast a chromatic orb that does area of effect damage with no save (still love that example).

invisibility spells? ("Please let no one see me, please let no one see me!" Oh God! Its a nasty Goblin! Better blast it with an Abi dalzim's Horrid wilting, that'll teach the bugger!")

 

:checks in an online dictionary:

Ahem, yes, loon! I like the way it sounds!

OK, I am already playing a wacky WM in ToB, I will finish its saga first, do not worry! Just collecting ideas for my next run and all!

 

I say still that you should get MMM...you get 5 attacks per round, and they have +4 enchantment and are phenomenal for getting rid of Trolls...so its just too good a spell to pass up.

 

Well I would never use MMM when I had SoM, so I don't want to pick a spell that would grow useless in the future. Besides I would have really good ranged weapons as well. I hardly bother to use the spell in my other games, anyway, I am not a big fan of cast/attack strategy:my own tactics are generally:cast/cast/cast/cast... if this does not work, attack, if this does not work:flee or reload!