1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Are we hybrids?

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Paracelsi, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,100
    Media:
    10
    Likes Received:
    104
    Gender:
    Male
    Paracelsi, Sep 3, 2013
    #1
  2. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    13,354
    Likes Received:
    99
    That is a long article! Fascinating, but I have no way of verifying any of the science he refers to. I wonder why the author is so against a test of his theory.
     
    Harbourboy, Sep 4, 2013
    #2
  3. Ofelix

    Ofelix The world changes, we do not, what irony!

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Messages:
    5,989
    Media:
    5
    Likes Received:
    111
    Gender:
    Male
    The arguments and evidences seems to be pointing towards an Hybrid Human species, but just as Harbourboy I lack the necessary scientific knowledge to verify it. I have to say I find this theory fascinating though. It's not like the "we evolved naturally from primates (non hybrid)"* theory is beyond doubt. At any rate it's fascinating, if it's true then call me a hairless pig-monkey thing, if it's not then, I guess I'm just an hairless monkey.

    So... does this mean eating bacon is cannibalizing ? Damn, I love me some bacon !

    *Or however it's called, I 'unno.
     
    Ofelix, Sep 4, 2013
    #3
  4. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2003
    Messages:
    6,815
    Media:
    6
    Likes Received:
    336
    T2Bruno's father was a goat herder. Guess what kind of hybrid T2 is...


    :p
     
    Splunge, Sep 4, 2013
    #4
  5. Darion

    Darion Resident Dissident Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    801
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    42
    Gender:
    Male
    An interesting week.
    First we're from Mars and now Hybrids.
    Could be both for all we know. ;)
     
    Darion, Sep 4, 2013
    #5
  6. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Media:
    102
    Likes Received:
    136
    Gender:
    Female
    Interesting. He does state that this is a hypothesis only and not proven fact. Before finishing the article and finding out what he considered our second parent I went over the list of traits on the second page and quickly realized what animal he considered our ancestor.

    Genesis tells us that Adam was made from dirt and divine spit. The therory of this scientist certainly makes more sense to me than that. That is just my opinion.
     
    Nakia, Sep 4, 2013
    #6
  7. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    6,586
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    162
    Stupid BA time again, but I don't understand what you mean by 'hybrid'? Do you mean pre-historic man mated with other species and made humans as we know? That's how my brain interprets the word!
     
    Barmy Army, Sep 4, 2013
    #7
  8. Ofelix

    Ofelix The world changes, we do not, what irony!

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Messages:
    5,989
    Media:
    5
    Likes Received:
    111
    Gender:
    Male
    That would be the standard defenition, yes. Taking from the same website as the article:

    hybrid /'haɪbrɪd, -brəd/ n. (1) the offspring of genetically distinct parents; (2) the offspring of mating between individuals treated as separate species ; (3) a single strand of DNA annealed to a strand of complementary RNA; (4) a virus composed of units derived from two or more parental viruses.

    Source

    Taking from dictionary.reference.com (relevent bits)

    hybrid  
    hy·brid /ˈhaɪbrɪd/
    noun
    1.
    the offspring of two animals or plants of different breeds, varieties, species, or genera, especially as produced through human manipulation for specific genetic characteristics.

    [...]

    Source

    Btw, I should point out that "especially as produced through human manipulation" doesn't mean exclusively through human manipulation
     
    Ofelix, Sep 4, 2013
    #8
  9. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,100
    Media:
    10
    Likes Received:
    104
    Gender:
    Male
    Also a careless typo on my part. It should read "Are we hybrids?"
     
    Paracelsi, Sep 4, 2013
    #9
  10. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Media:
    102
    Likes Received:
    136
    Gender:
    Female
    Hybrid as used in this study means two different species, specifically a primate probably of the chimpanzee line and one of the early swine family. Thus producing some creature that after a period of six million years eventually evolved into homo sapiens..
     
    Nakia, Sep 4, 2013
    #10
  11. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,877
    Media:
    13
    Likes Received:
    180
    I was wondering about that. I kept reading it like a hybrid car tagline or something, similar to when nouns become verbs in cool-speak. Like "Do you hybrid?" ;)
     
    Gaear, Sep 5, 2013
    #11
  12. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    6,586
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    162
    So.... what is he/she actually saying?
     
    Barmy Army, Sep 5, 2013
    #12
  13. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    9,776
    Media:
    15
    Likes Received:
    440
    Gender:
    Male
    Bunch of bunk. If hybrid with other species were possible for humans the porn industry would be filled with hybrid children ... just sayin'.

    I have very few memories of my father from childhood ... he was in the Navy for a while but he could have been a goat herder and I would never have known. :p
     
    T2Bruno, Sep 5, 2013
    #13
  14. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,416
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    232
    Gender:
    Male
    Well joking aside, that's not what the article is saying. In fact quite the opposite. The observation that humans do not hybridize with other species is evidence in favor of humans being a hybrid species because an aspect of hybrids is that they have lower fertility than non-hybrids (or so is the claim in the article).

    The claim of the article is that a chimpanzee (a supposedly non-hybrid species) hybridized with a pig (another supposedly non-hybrid species) to produce the hybrid species human (or some early ancestor).

    I would have expected the author to talk about the ancestors of pigs and chimps though... surprises me that he didn't.
     
    Blackthorne TA, Sep 5, 2013
    #14
  15. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Media:
    102
    Likes Received:
    136
    Gender:
    Female
    I did a search to see if I could get some bonafides for the scientist Eugene M McCarthy and came up with this article. http://phys.org/news/2013-07-chimp-pig-hybrid-humans.html

    I have no idea how much the site can be trusted though. It has quite a few scientific articles or are they quasi scientific articles? I have no idea.

    There are various theories of how we got here, how we evolved.

    We are descended from aliens.
    We are genetically produced by aliens from chimps.
    We evolved in a cabbage patch.
    The stork brought us.

    The big problem is that so far scientists have not found the missing link or links. At least this guy does seem to have some evidence to support his claim. Six million years is a long time. Maybe scientists should go pull out those bones the stuck in closets labeled "No idea what these things are" and check them out for chimp/pig possibilities.

    Personally I don't care about what happened six million years ago. I am here now how ever I got here. I woke up this morning, swore a little about its being morning, had my coffee, did what I need to do get myself started on a new day. Decided I was glad to be alive and then found this article here. I now have something interesting to upset people with thanks to Sorcerers Place and its fantastic members.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
    Nakia, Sep 5, 2013
    #15
  16. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    13,354
    Likes Received:
    99
    He also suggests that gorillas are the hybrid descendants of chimpanzees and the giant forest hog. He also talks about some mysterious unexplained apes that he says are the hybrids of gorillas and chimpanzees.
     
    Harbourboy, Sep 5, 2013
    #16
  17. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,637
    Media:
    13
    Likes Received:
    134
    Gender:
    Male
    The answer would be yes, we are hybrids. Hybridization is such a broad term, and is linked to the rather arbitrary and unclear definition of what we see as a species. Unless we narrow down what is meant by hybridization, the answer is simply yes.

    From what I read, the author thinks our ancestors might have come from a cross between chimpanzee and pre-humans. It's not impossible. Unfortunately, it's been a while since I've done any genetic analysis, and I don't have my study books at hand either. I can't say much about how sound his claim is.
     
    coineineagh, Sep 8, 2013
    #17
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.