1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Court: Taker of Discarded $1M Lotto Ticket Not Entitled to Winnings

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Blackthorne TA, May 2, 2012.

  1. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,416
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    232
    Gender:
    Male
    This one seems a little strange to me. Apparently a woman took some discarded lotto tickets from a trash bin at a convenience store and one was a $1 million winner.

    Judge just ruled that she's not entitled to the winnings, it should go to the one who discarded the ticket!

    What?! :confused:
     
  2. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    9,776
    Media:
    15
    Likes Received:
    440
    Gender:
    Male
    I think this falls in line with other rulings. "Finders-keepers" doesn't apply. The statement of the woman who placed it in the garbage was the ticket was 'mistakenly' placed in the trash. As such the woman did not relinquish possession -- I believe the same would apply if someone mistakenly dropped a envelope of money in the trash. The person finding it should notify the authorities.
     
  3. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,416
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    232
    Gender:
    Male
    Perhaps. It still seems odd to me because inadvertent or not (though Duncan did say she threw it away on purpose because she thought it was not a winner) if Jones had not fished it out, it would have been destroyed and Duncan would never have gotten the money.
     
  4. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,877
    Media:
    13
    Likes Received:
    180
    Except that anyone who throws a winning lottery ticket in the trash will always have done it mistakenly. ;)

    Generally, the simple act of discarding something is considered an implicit act of disownership, regardless of your claimed intent. For example, when you put your trash out at the curb for pickup, you no longer own it.

    If you throw a $100 bill in the trash, you don't own it anymore and the finder can keep it, although the generally moral thing to do is to inquire as to whether it was really meant to be discarded, I suppose. That's different than, say, gathering up money that fell off an armored truck or claiming a bag of money that you found by someone's seat on the bus as your own. Those things weren't literally or implicitly discarded.

    I suppose the lottery commission wants to avoid the 9/10 of the law thing with lottery tickets though so as not to encourage robberies or theft and be seen as supporting lottery players. :heh:
     
  5. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,416
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    232
    Gender:
    Male
    In this case the lottery commission gave the money to Jones and she said she already spent some of it.

    It's not completey clear, but I think it was the store owner who started this. I think the store owner saw that Jones picked up a winning ticket out of the trash and wanted to claim that it was the store's then. There was something about the owner putting up a sign after this happened to tell customers not to take the dicarded tickets.
     
  6. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    12,434
    Media:
    46
    Likes Received:
    250
    Gender:
    Male
    She's really SOL if she doesn't even have the $1 million to give her.

    I understand that they were able to prove who the person was who originally purchased the ticket by matching the time stamp on the ticket to the video camera at the store.

    But how did the person who purchased the ticket come to find out that she had actually won after she had thrown the ticket away, and how did they then trace the ticket back to the woman who was not the winner, but cashed in the prize?

    I'm with BTA on this one, I think if you threw it out, that's on you - tough luck.
     
  7. Shardnax Gems: 6/31
    Latest gem: Jasper


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    8
    You might forget about something, or misplace something, but you never throw something away accidentally.
     
  8. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    9,776
    Media:
    15
    Likes Received:
    440
    Gender:
    Male
    I just read the woman scanned the ticket in the store and got a "Not a Winner" notice. That may complicate things a bit. I can see why the lottery commission would support this verdict; otherwise, they may have to pay out twice.

    I want some of what Shardnax is taking....
     
  9. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,877
    Media:
    13
    Likes Received:
    180
    Heh, yeah it seems it only got murky once the courts got involved.

     
  10. Shardnax Gems: 6/31
    Latest gem: Jasper


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    8
    I don't just toss boxes, bags, or whatever in the trash without making sure of the contents. I don't know about you but, I've never thrown something out if I had the intention of keeping it :p.
     
  11. reepnorp

    reepnorp Lim'n Lime Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    1,675
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    This statement in and of itself angers me greatly. As far as I'm concerned it's an all-or-nothing situation. You either want to claim the prizes, or you throw it out because you don't want any. You can't just throw something out and then say "No you silly goose, I was only throwing out the part I knew about!"

    I'd be curious to see a situation where someone buys something cheap from a yard sale only to find out it's worth millions. The previous owner would get laughed at for saying "If I had known it was worth more I wouldn't have relinquished ownership" because that would just be stupid. This is pretty much the same thing in my books.

    If you throw something out, give something away, sell something, or otherwise dispose of something, you should no longer have any legal rights to it.
     
  12. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    6,586
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    162
    I don't know how it works inthe US, but over here if you find something that is not your property, you are legally obliged to hand it in to the police. If then, after some time (not sure how long) the rightful owner hasn't come forth to claim it, it's yours. In this case, the rightful owner claimed the ticket and had obviously thrown it away in error. No-one would knowingly think 'Nah, I don't need this $1 million winning lottery ticket'. I see no problem with the judgement.
     
  13. Silvery

    Silvery I won't pretend to be your friend coz I'm just not ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    3,224
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    218
    Gender:
    Female
    You've never washed your jeans and then found a soggy fiver in the pocket? :lol:
     
  14. Darion

    Darion Resident Dissident Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    801
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    42
    Gender:
    Male
    Wow, imagine the twist of fate.

    Finding the Winning Ticket on the trash, and having it taken away!
     
  15. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    12,434
    Media:
    46
    Likes Received:
    250
    Gender:
    Male
    Even if you find it in a trash can?
     
  16. LKD Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    6,284
    Likes Received:
    271
    Gender:
    Male
    That's ridiculous. Garbage is by its nature no longer anyone's property. Otherwise, you could sue the garbage man for moving your "property" without your permission if you accidently throw away something important (it can happen, you toss a pile of papers not realizing something vital is in there)
     
  17. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    6,586
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    162
    Sure; if you didn't buy it, it's not yours.
     
  18. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2000
    Messages:
    23,653
    Media:
    494
    Likes Received:
    570
    Gender:
    Male
    I doubt it really applies to garbage as well, Barmy, because as LKD noted, then anyone could change their mind about anything they threw in the trash and request that the garbage collectors return it or pay a restitution fee. Not to mention that in the majority of cases, once the garbage is collected, it's either as good as destroyed or impossible to prove whose any item in the truck is. So I could bin a broken iPod that I dropped and then claim that I accidentally placed a perfectly working iPod in the trash and demand a new one. The garbage companies would be scammed out of business in a week.
     
  19. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    6,586
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    162
    Well, I think that's where the difference in 'someone whose job it is to dispose of things in rubbish bins' and 'some randomer looking through someone's rubbish bins' lies.
     
  20. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2003
    Messages:
    6,815
    Media:
    6
    Likes Received:
    336
    Except the rubbish bin didn't belong to the person who claims the ticket is theirs.
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.