Does a bard need INT?

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I know mages need it for spell casting, but do bards need it as well?

[ June 11, 2005, 15:34: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

If we are talking BG1 here - nope, you can make him as dumb as chukotka's "miss world" contestant, if you do not care that much about role playing. A bard needs charisma on first place, dex on second, and of course constitution if he/she is to survive the grim reality of BG1 (you could put something on strenght too if you like)

If we are talking D&D3, things are much different.

 

If the bard's intelligence is less than 13 you can't have many spells per level memorized. Also the lower the intelligence the lower the chance to learn a spell is.

An Ideal bard has at least:
13 str
15 dex
__ con
15 int
__ wis
16 cha

That's why bards are hard to use, they need to very very versatile.

 

If I remember correctly, bard spellcasting depended on charisma not on intelligence. (never played a bard in BG1 though)
Also low con for PC in BG1 is a bad idea, unless you like reloading

 

Bards using CHA for spellcasting is a part of the 3E ruleset. In BG I & II, bards use INT in the same way as mages: % chance of memorisation and number of spells known/level are both dependent upon INT. Bards only use for CHA is in conversation and getting cheaper items.

An "Ideal" stat distribution for a bard would be something like this:

STR 10
DEX 18
CON 16
INT 18
WIS 10
CHA 18

Which isn't too tough to roll. You could also skimp a point of WIS if things are tight, or a couple of points of STR. Bards aren't frontliners, really (although Scythesong may disagree...) and any packhorse duties should be left to the party. And longbows rule anyway.

 

Thanks for the quick reply. I use sword coast keeper for stats, but i do try to keep it balanced. I'm playing a solo bard and these are my stats:
Str: 18
Dex: 18
con: 16
int: 15
wis: 10
cha: 18

I might increase the int though considering what Magpie said...

Oh, and int is not so important for bards in 3e... I mean, skill point are nice but bards use cha for spell casting...

 

A bard has a minimum Int roll of 13 anyway and in BG1/2 the only real reason for Int is to learn spells easier and i think it also affects the number of spells you can learn.

That said, Int and Wis can both be used to give lore a boost. The bonuses start when Int/Wis are >= 15. It doesnt matter too much, as when you start getting past level 4-5 you can id most things anyway.

Charisma is min 15 anyway, and has no bearing except for better reactions from NPCs. Only in 3rd-ed rules is Cha used for spellcasting. However, I always make it 18 as it suits a Bard and when you start at candlekeep you can get a Dagger+1 off Fuller if you have Cha=18

Generally, when I play a Bard (which is very often) my stats are usually ....

Str 16-17
Dex 18
Con 15-16
Int 13-15
Wis 10-12
Cha 18

My current Bard in BG1 is 16/18/15/14/11/18 and the Bard is have started in the next game is 17/18/16/13/10/18.

 

Never forget CON and DEX. I was killed by an Xvart in one hit right out of the Candlekeep (and of course I'd forgotten to save). Beware the demons in blue!

 

C'mon, the "ideal" Bard has 18's in every stat. That being said, a high INT is good for both memorizing spells, and increasing the Bards Lore. WIS helps here too, although it's probably the least important attribute for a Bard.

 

The intelligence helps with number of spells per level a Bard can remember too. A really neat trick is to start with an 18, increase it to 19 with a tome, and then you can memorize as many spells as you can get your greedy little roguish hands on.

I just think a full spellbook is really cool.

 

The first time I played as a bard I made sure I had the following stats...

Str 17
Dex 18
Con 16
Int 15
Wis 10
Cha 15+

I find it the 17 str to come in handy if you have to actually get into melee with the NPCs. The +1 to hit help tremendiously considering a Bard Thaco is not that of a figher.

 

Somehow I didn't find that bard's intelligence affected the number of spells she could remember although it helped in remembering the spells. My bards stats are.

Str 18(19)
Dex 18(19)
Con 18(19)
Int 18(19)
Wis 7(10) (or the lowest possible for a HE bard)
Cha 15(16)

and yes I'm using him as a tank inBGII, since he's not much of a spellcaster. In BGII I made him a blade of course. Jester would've been fun but jesters bardsong isn't that special and otherwise the kit is just plain vanilla bard. Blade is so much more interesting kit to play. In BG I had him chucking spells from scrolls, shooting arrows and using wands. Worked.

 

Intelligence is SUPPOSED to affect the max spell level that a bard/mage can cast spells from. In practice, as far as the BG series (and IWD1? needs checking) is concerned, it does NOT work like that (and neither does Wisdom for clerics/druids, in fact). No matter how high or low your INT is, you will be able to cast spells from all spell levels. Intelligence will ONLY affect the number of spells you can scribe into your book, as well as lore (which really shouldn't be an issue for bards). Therefore, I really don't see any need to pump up INT. Spend your precious points into DEX and CON (or even STR), and use a Potion of Genius before attempting to scribe scrolls.

As for Charisma, it will not affect the bard in any way at all. In BG Charisma only affects dialog choices, and in BG1 that depends on the charisma of the party leader, which is NOT necessarily the main protagonist.

In short: unless you're trying to roleplay this, don't bother with either charisma or intelligence.

 

Intelligence affects how many spells you can have in your spellbook for each level of spell, and Charisma affects rewards from quests (in BG1 at least) and also prices in stores.

And powergaming low INT on a bard or mage is just , IMO.

[ October 15, 2005, 22:08: Message edited by: Felinoid ]

 

It depends on how much of a powergamer you are

Seriously, I was talking in terms of game mechanics more than anything else. It is a rather glaring engine limitation, but it isn't any cheesier than a number of tactics (let's not go into THAT!)

Besides, as Klorox pointed out, if you really wanted a bard that perfectly fits the "archetype", he'd have to max all stats, and then some.