Everybody was Kung Fu fighting - enter the Monk

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This is the only explanation I can come up with to account for such a class as the Monk. Around the time when Gygax and his pals were inventing the game, or some years thereafter, Bruce Lee and all that Kung Fu fighting stuff were taking off. And then someone said, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if Bruce were kickin some Dragon butt too?"

Don't you agree that this type of character would've been so alien to someone like Tolkien? Where exaclty would a Monk come from in Middle Earth anyhow? Where do they come from in the Forgotten Realms for that matter?

In the beginning the monk was pitiful. Weaker than a Mage. And so someone revamped him ( in an old Dragon mag article called "The Monk - he's got a lot to kick about" ). I don't know how many revamps he's gone through since then but now not only is he a fish out of water (IMHO ), but a Great White at that. I just dropped Thaxll'ssillya with one blow! Are you kidding me!?

I love the Monk but in that over - the - top super hero sort of way. And I seriously suspect that his creators were thinking more about Bruce Lee and all of them faster than lightening kicks than any Shaolin monk when they rolled this class up.

Forgive the length of this rant. And rant me back if I'm way off here.

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Monks in the Forgotten Realms come from Kara-Tur, which is kind of the Asia of Toril.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but Bruce Lee was specialized in Shaolin Kung Fu. Although he later created his own fighting style, of which I can't remember the name right now. That's what you get when you hear to many martial arts terms, you can't remember which is which.

 

I'm not sure about Lee's style. What do you think though about the monk being a rather odd class?

 

Europe has its share of unarmed combat specialists in its history, but they were not organized in quasi-religious groups like the monk character class. Certainly the class was created based on the oriental warrior-monk mythology.

But I am not sure what your point is, really. The cleric and the magic user classes are also alien to genuine European tradition and to the likes of Tolkein. Traditional wizards did everything by summoning spirits or by alchemy. They didn't lob fireballs. Nor did Gandalf hurl spells about, unless you count the one or two white bolts sent the way of the Nazgul at the Pelennor fields. D&D style wizards are at least as far from those source materials as the martial arts movies are from real shao-lin monks.

Btw, Bruce Lee's martial art is called Jeet Kune Do. The Hong Kong movie style of martial arts fighting has its own name,too, but I can't recall it right at the moment.

 

I guess my point is that the monk doesn't quite fit into the D&D setting.

You're point about Clerics and Mages is well taken, but on a very base level, those two classes represent Magic, the Mage moreso than the Cleric. The fighter of course needs no apology. But I think the monk does. Who invented this class? Does anyone know? I know it's fantasy, but the very idea of fist on plate just doesn't sit right.

 

The Monk class has been around since the first edition PH was released. I don't believe it was in the earliest D&D edition (the brown booklets), but has always been part of AD&D. So it certainly fits the "D&D" setting. It may not fit into *your* fantasy world, which is a different issue.

As for 'fist on plate', that's true it wouldn't be very effective. But many Eastern martial arts were specifically designed to be used against armed and armored enemies. Hwarang-do was designed for use by the medieval Korean nobility and has many moves specifically for use if they were disarmed and/or dismounted in a cavalry melee. Other martial arts were developed to help peasants fight off enemy warriors.

That's why almost all martial arts have a strong emphasis on weapons use in their past. If you had a weapon, great, but if you didn't you weren't helpless.

Personally, I think unarmed combat against heavily armored targets is less ridiculous than some of the weapons in the game. Rapiers? Get real. A rapier is effectively useless against plate armor. That style of sword only got developed *because* people stopped wearing heavy armor and therefore didn't need the power(and weight)of a longsword or greatsword. At least an unarmed attack would have more force of impact. You might knock the guy over or something.

Did you know that a great many knights of the 15th century stopped bothering with shields at all because their armor was so effective at stopping missiles and light weapons attacks? They needed to use two handed weapons (usually greatswords) to have reasonable chances of hurting each other.

However, D&D doesn't work on that basis (few games do and most are unsuccessful if they try), so its not unreasonable to allow monks, who are clearly possessed of preternaturally powerful unarmed attacks), to be just as effective as any other weapon.

 

If the monk doesn't fit your world then he simply doesn't exist. Rather simple isn't it.

 

Hi, firstly Bruce Lee reached master level (sifu) in Wing Chun, therafter he studied all available martial arts and worldwide philosophy especially related to martial arts. After studying for several years he introduced Jeet kune do, and lastly, his philosphy for a martial arts was a style-less way of fighting.
His accomplishments are usually compared to those of shaolin monks where Chinese Kung Fu originated.

My point is don't rule out the monk because they have been capable of amazing levels of fitness and feats not usually attainable by your average man. Think about one finger pushups (not one on each hand), absorbing the impact of massive blows and the high level of discipline.

Bruce lee, as an example, held the world record for the one inch punch, and knocking out opponents with it. Measure one inch movement for your fist.

I'm only really scratching on the surface of martial arts, without getting into Qi/ Ki, zen etc.

Tell me again how the monk is not suited! There's loads of info freely available to prove otherwise

 

Jet Kun Do, that was it, how could I forget that.

The physical powers of Kung Fu specialists is really great. EVen with their mental powers they can move their Chi throw there entire and hardening it.

The monk fits entirely into the D&D setting. They are those who train to fight without weapons and who meditate to make their body and mind stronger.

BTW Astin -> One finger Kung Fu kinda died out. The last person who had the skills and knowledge of one finger techniques died in 1989 if I am not mistaken. Two finger Kung Fu however is still common.

 

Actually, I was only referring to one finger pushups

 

Oooh, first post

I always thought that the D&D rules were just that. Rules. The setting and how the different classes fit into that are left up to the DM.

OK, so if a new class is shoehorned into an existing setting where it doesnt quite fit in it can be pretty annoying, but if you care that much about it then just use your own setting, or leave what you dont like out.

 

Actually in medieval Europe the monks did learn basic combat training... So It would be theoretically possible to extend that into an actual worrier monk group. I personally have no problem with it in the Forgotten Realms setting but you are right in that it probably came out of the ninjas etc. from Asia.il

 

What monks in Europe recieved 'basic combat training'? Its not part of the Cistercian, Benedictine, Carthusian, or Premostratensian routine. I don't believe any of the canons regular (augustinians, for example) had such either. Maybe some of the mendicant Orders had some informal self defense instruction, but I haven't come across any reference to formal standards.

Obviously, the military Orders (Templars, Hospitallers, etc) had formal martial training. But those are best represented by the fighter, cleric, and paladin classes and have little in common with the game monk.