Good and Evil

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This was discussed on in the chatroom the other day but now i must bring my opinions to the boards for i need your opinions too.

Good and evil do not exist. It is a set of rules made up by us and our ancestors to guide us into a 'civilised race'.
What defines good and evil?

Point 1:
You may say that if you murder someone it is evil.
But then you contradict yourself by stating that some may kill for a reason(like wild animals, self defence etc).
You contradict because every murderer does it for a 'reason'. Even if it is just because they enjoy it or they felt an impulse to do it, it is still a 'reason'.
So then you say it is not a real decent and just reason.
But what is real, decent and just is but an opinion. A Vicar may think murder because you 'want' to is evil but a Nazi may not.
You say the Nazi is evil.
He is. But only in your eyes. to him you are wrong and evil.

Point 2:
There is the argument that murderer's are evil because they make others suffer.
But then we think that people filled with lust and sexual tension are evil too even though they are experiencing joy.
Who is to say even that suffering is evil?
Maybe the joy that we experience in everyday life is evil and suffering and lust are good.

Point 3:
It is our born and bred instinct to be stronger than the next man. If one man is stronger than us we have the urge to kill them because as far as our instincts are concerend they threaten our mates and livlyhood.
If one is weaker we kill them because they slow us down.
This applies to the rest of nature and they think nothing of it when they kill for an easier life.
And we SHOULD be the same.
Yet we seem to think that fighting for a better life in such a brutal but natural fashion is wrong?
Why? Is it the Bible?
No, because it was written by man and it tells that evil is to murder and good is to pity and love thine enemy!
Somthing must have happened before it was written.
Is it our need to be civilised?
No because only we define what is civilised.
So what is it that made us distingish Good from Evil even though our instincts say the reverse?

The truth is i just don't know, Do you?

I would just like to say that i still do not agree with the Nazi's or murder.
I am simply asking why not?

[This message has been edited by Sir Dargorn (edited August 30, 2001).]

 

good and evil are being felt, you just "know" when some is either of them.
We just put down some words to it, only problem is that everyone doesn't feel the same way about the same stuff.

 

This can't be a good thread. Can it? because what is good? See my evil point? This thread leads us nowhere. Or is my point evil?

I think I'll let All this philosophy and religious debating rest for a week. Whenever I begin to discuss I just have to finish it. And this is too hypothetical. I shit green beetles when I hear two Philosophy-students at university discuss whether they exsist or not.

We could just as well discuss wheter Blue as I see it is in fact what You see as red.

EDITED HERE: You are truly right Dargorn. We can't say. Noone can define an almighty truth on good and evil that the WHOLE humanity will agree on (perhaps hinduism, christianity) And even if we did agree, we can't be sure that it is "true" Cause what is truth?. is it a time variable or environmental variable? Is the ALMIGHTY truth of good and evil The ENTIRE humanity hypothetically agreed on now, the same in 500 years. or in another world. Like an extreme cannibal environment? This is a dead end discussion. and look You made me walk all the way down to the dead end.

[This message has been edited by Nobleman (edited August 30, 2001).]

 

Man is not capable of good. That is our problem.

 

I see the religious aspect Mollusken. That is why we are given Grace and forgiven by God.
But I am not religious so I feel I am capable of good. Good in my own sense is beeing helpfull. Not to talk behind anyones back. Care about my family. Dedicating my life to cure deseases and try to make Earth a healthier place to be in.

 

I LOVE U!!!
these are exactly the points i am trying to make. and it is by these points which lay forth that christianity, islam, and a whole plateu of other religions are based on, however holy, a book.

 

there is no good or evil, only action and consequence

this has nothing to do with religious affairs

 

Blackmire ---> and where is your knowledge of good an evil then based on? On what others say and think? Or the law? (also nothing more then a book?)

 

Excuse me, but good and evil do exist.

Not in cultural way nor in religious way nor in any "general" way you would like to put it in.

Good and evil are patterns of your own. When you name something, you must have in your mind what is it. Do you understand?

If you say "this is good", "that is good", "he/she/it is good", etc, you have a pattern in your head that makes you "feel" like something is acting in respect of that pattern. The same is with evil.

Your problem is if the pattern is your own creation or someone forced you to believe in other's patterns.

To me - "good" is anything that makes all sides happy. And it exists.

If all sides are not happy - we're talking about something "good" for some sides and something "not good" for other sides.

There is no thing "not good" for all sides.

And I literally call "evil" all things that are "not good".

Need an example?

- Extremist is evil.
- Lokken is good.
Don't tell me these two sentences aren't enough arguments?

 

I have underestimated You Extremist. You are more than an ordinary deep drilling spammer. This is what You get: Thumb up.

 

Mankinds problem has nothing to do with evil.
It is because humans are weak-minded fools, who let themselves be controlled by others, because it is easier not having to think for yourself and because noone want's to be alone.

 

No extremist, cause good and evil are opinions, every individual has his own defenition of good/evil, a car is a car, but good isnt good
do you understand?

 

/me ignores mutes afraid of rebooting...

 

I'm getting sick of this childish crusade of yours.....

you know where to put your crap!

 

Kevlar You miss his point. No matter how individual You comprehend Good Vs. Evil then an act that causes good to all parties involved cannot be considered anything but good.

Reread Extremist's post untill You understand.

I have always taken his posts rather superficial. I was/am gravely mistaken. I learned that today. As Yoda would put it; Smart he is, Yes, Yes hympr hympr.

 

What Extremist and others have been trying to say is that morality is relative. Every man does what is right in his own eyes. The question that pesters us is whether there is an absolute morality existing outside of our relative morality. Many people in this day and age no longer believe in absolute morality. Inevitably, this leads to the denial of an absolute truth as well. This is what leads to the debate that Nobleman mentioned (between the two Philosophy majors) of whether an absolute universe exists at all.

I believe that there is an absolute universe, an absolute truth, and an absolute morality. I cannot prove it beyond the shadow of a doubt, although there is overwhelming circumstantial evidence; at the foundation, I have to believe by faith (as does nearly everyone, religious or not) that my perceptions reflect the actual and true.

Through what I have experienced and perceived, I believe the Bible to be the expression of absolute morality and truth, as much of it as finite mind can grasp.

 

Good an evil is relative, there is no abosolute where everyone believes the same. i give to all you gentlemen (and ladies too) a simple example: How many of you think heavy metal music is evil?
i bet very few do.
yet there are those out there who BELIEVE with all their hearts that it is EVIL.
here's another: a family kills their child because they believe with all their hearts that it is evil. now what?
i can name a thousand more examples which shows the conflicting views of good and evil within humans.
thats what relative means. thats why if there is a god, then good or evil is relative to his views
me, i believe there is no good, nor evil. everything just is, or issnt. if say, extremist kills someone, it issnt good, it issnt evil, its just a fact that he killed some one. if he is of sound mind, and has thought of the consequences, and everything that comes with killing someone, then he does it, and it is. just like...the grass is green. is that good or evil? it just is. john ate an apple, is that good or evil? it just is. thats my belief anyway.

 

We humans are so insane discussing this. Clearly other animals have less problems than we do.

 

you think?