Good wizard build?

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Hello, I've just made my new wizard in NWN, and I was wondering, how can I make him a really powerful caster? Where do I put the points, what spells do I use, what feats do I use? Please tell me of your wizard-only build. What spells are good to use with Maximize Spells, etc. Please help me out, I'd really appriciate it!

 

the best build largely depends on which module or persistent world you're playing in - in the OC with the default PVP settings, for example, lobbing a fireball into melee doesn’t even singe your cohorts, whereas in many persistent worlds, such activity will probably get you flagged as a criminal and then killed in retribution by other irate players, if your familiar doesn’t get you first

broadly, the best advice for wizards is to stick as many attribute points into INT as you can spare, and choose useful buffing spells such as stoneskin, flameblade, and improved invisibility when you level up since these last longer and are more useful than the ranged attack spells

If you’re looking for specific builds, you may find the build search tool useful

 

I like a setup along these lines, if playing regularly un-modded NwN, or when playing PvM in general:

-Race: Human
-Why? Because you get extra feat/skill points, and in addition one extra skill point pr./lvl

Attributes


-Str: 8 Any more points would be a waste, you need to be strong enough to carry some of the items that you find. If you think eight is a bit low, then you can put 10 points in there, but no more! Remember that each point used inhere, means less points used in another stat.

-Dex: 15 point in dex. Your AC will still be ridiculous, but it's not to increase AC that we put 15 points inhere; but, its to increase your reflex' and saving throws. Besides, I like to give my sorc a crossbow so he will be capable of delivering physical attacks if he has to.

-Con: 12 You want good enough con to get decent HP. Though it's still bad considering that you're a sorcerer.

-Int: 18 is an appropriate number, others might put more points in it, but in the end I think that you can use your points better,

-Wis: 8 Wisdom doesn't have the great affect on your sorc.

-Cha: 10 could take some points from Dex and put them here instead

You won't need any more points in other stats, so whenever gaining an lvl, increase your int.
If you find that you can't carry anything, then you could put some points into str, but make sure to have at least 19-20 int.

Skills

Concentration: Great skill. It lowers the chance that your spell will be interrupted whenever an opponent is hitting you. You want to max this one.

Spellcraft: Unlike concentration, you don't have to max this one immediately. It's good when casting counter spells, but just increase it slowly (not to slow though). In the end it will get maxed.

Well, besides these two, only persuade, search, and lore are worth spending time on, but they're not that important.

Feats

I have here listed the feats that I find useful. '*' = Feats that I find it necessary to have

-Maximize Spell*: This feat does so that your spells will always give full dmg. whenever they hit. In addition it will also make your spells hit the maximum number of enemies... A must-have.

-Empower spell: Your spell gain 150% of its original dmg. and number of targets.

-Combat Casting: Removes the -4 penalty to concentration checks when within three meters of an enemy.

-Quicken Spell*: You cast spells immediately, making them invulnerable to counterspells or interruption.

-Spell Focus: +2 Bonus to your DC when casting a spell of your chosen school.

-Spell Penetration*: +2 Bonus to caster level checks in order to beat spell resistance.

-Silent Spell: allows a spell to be cast without making any noises or using any words (nice feat, but no a necessity).

Spells reflect your style and temper, so I won't say anything about those...

 

Olimikrig gave good advice. I would differ from him on a few points, however. First, I would recommend Elf over Human. First, Elf gives a +2 to DEX, allowing a 16 DEX without burning a lot of points. Elf also allows access to longswords and bows, much better weapons than other Wizards can have access to. Next, put an 18 into INT and use ALL your level up points to increase INT. Also, find the best INT increasing magic items available. You will live and die by your spells, so you want the DC to be as high as possible -- therefore, your INT must be as high as you can possibly make it.

Because of your high INT, you will also have lots of skill points, so do not be afraid to take cross class skills. Max out Concentration, Spellcraft and Lore. That will still leave you points for placing in cross class skills. The best choice is Tumble as that gives you +1AC for every five skill ranks. Also, place at least one point in Search, Disable Device and Open Locks; and more points in these if you have them. If you have a good DEX, you should be able to open most locks and disarm most traps up until about Chapter 3. On this note, I would also mention that the best familiar, IMHO, is the Pixie. A wizard can fight alone quite well, so does not need a meat shield familiar like a panther. The Pixie is a great little thief and can do the locks and traps that you cannot. At higher levels she can also cast Improved Invisibility -- sweet.

I would recommend against wasting a feat on Quicken Spell if you are just playing the campaigns or PvM. The reason why is that, due to the mechanics of the game engine, the effects of haste are the same as the Quicken Spell feat; they overlap and do not work together. Since you will have acquired Boots of Speed long before you can make effective use of Quicken Spell, you will waste a feat by taking Quicken Spell.

On the other hand, I would recommend taking Spell Focus and GSF in Necromancy. Necromancy has some great damaging and save-or-die spells, so GSF: Necromancy can pay off big time. I would'nt bother with any other schools as your main attack forms will eventually be IGMS, which has no save, thus making DC irrelevant, and your Necromancy spells like Horrid Wilting, Wail of the Banshee, Death to Undeath, and Circle of Death.

I would recommend that you also take Greater Spell Penetration. Once you start using your attack spells, your greatest threat is magic resistance, so you want to be able to get past it.

I do agree with Olimikrig that Maximize Spell is essential. I would also recommend Empower Spell more highly than Olimikrig did. Fireball caps at 10d6 when you hit 10th level. Empower will make your Fireballs do 15d6 damage. Not quite as powerful, on average, as Maximize, but Empower only uses a slot two spell levels higher as opposed to Maximize's three levels.

One feat Olimikrig did not mention is Extend Spell. I consider this the most vital feat a Wizard can take. The importance of it can be seen from the discussion below, but, in brief, you will be relying heavily on defensive and buffing spells. The key to these spells is, usually, duration. The longer you can keep these spells active, the longer you can fight on without resting. Extend Spell will let you stay in the fight for a much longer period of time.

Misery is also correct in stating that some of your best spells are the defensive and buffing spells. As strange as it may sound, your Wizard is better being used as a fighter than as a spell caster for quite some time. This is important to remember. One of the common mistakes made by players new to Wizards is to start playing them as attack spell casters right from the start. That is a recipe for disaster! At low levels, a Wizard's attack spells cannot do enough damage to win fights; winning fights with attack spells only starts once the Wizard starts hitting the middle levels.

Until the power of the attack spells comes on-line, the Wizard has to use defensive and buff spells to become a melee monster. Coming out of the Prelude, a Wizard is a better fighter than a Fighter! Use Mage Armor, Shield, Bull's Strength, Flame Weapon and Ghostly Visage to create a powerful character who can fight for quite some time. Except for Ghostly Visage, these spells last a long time, even longer if you use Extend Spell, thus allowing you to keep fighting without resting. Just as an aside, the short duration of Ghostly Visage often leads me to buy Adventurer's Robes as my first purchase -- 5/+1 DR will get you through most non-Boss fights in the first Chapter.

I would advise you look in the NWN portion of the Games section here on SP. There you will find the Wizard Guide by Troy McLaughlan. It is quite good and addresses all the questions you have asked in quite some detail. That guide, by the by, was written for NWN without the expansions. It will be great if you only have NWN, but some of his advice will be outdated if you have the expansions installed.

Let me give you two pieces of actual playing advice. First, as a Wizard, you can leave the Academy as a 4th level character. What you need to do is rush from Aribeth to the stables only fighting those monsters that you cannot get by without killing. Do not go into any rooms looking for a fight. Try to run past monsters if you can. Once you are finished at the stables and have been leveled up to 3d level, return to the Academy and kill everything you can find. You will hit 4th level by the time you clear out the Academy. Secondly, I would recommend going to the Beggar's Nest first and using your Rod of Frost (your most important magic item for quite some time, make sure you give it a quick slot) to kill the zombies. They are so slow you should be able to clear the streets without a single one even getting close enough to take a swing at you. You want to get to 5th level ASAP so that you can get Fireball, which will finally allow you to start casting some attack spells; though an extend Flame Weapon would probably be a better use for your 3d level slot.

My advice has assumed that you have SoU and HotU installed. If you just have NWN, then go immediately and buy the two expansions, they are worth the price.

Hope this helps some.

 

I've never agreed much with the high-DEX elf wizard build.

Wizards are pretty much always going to have low AC and that doesn't much matter as they get things like Ghostly Visage and Stoneskin to make them resistant or immune to weapons plus they get damage shields which actually hurt their enemies when they are struck, meaning a wizard actually wants to get hit under some circumstances.

Therefore, the low-CON, wimpy scrawny elf wizard doesn't appeal to me. High DEX? So what. An extra couple points of AC will do a wizard little benefit.

I prefer the high-CON, high hit points wizard. Gnomes and Dwarves being the obvious choice.

 

Sir Fink,

Gnomes make GREAT wizards, no doubt about it (though I think the SF feat is more important than the CON bonus). As you so correctly point out, a Wizard relies upon spells which keeps him from being damaged more than on AC enhancing spells (though a Wizard can get an obscene AC if one is willing to put a little effort into it.). Thus, as you correctly point out, the AC bonus from high DEX is of little importance. But, by the same logic, if the Wizard is going to use spells that avoid damage, then lots of HP is no more important than AC.

In my analysis, the difference between high DEX vs. CON comes down to Reflex saves and missile attacks (an elf wizard with a longbow has a nice alternative to spells for attacking) vs. Fortitude saves. Since I also, generally, throw in a level of Monk or two of Rogue, I prefer the high Reflex save for use with Evasion (I like tossing a fireball at my own feet without having to worry about blowing myself up). YMMV.

 

Also a high hit point wizard ain't something I've ever seen. And when it comes to not bewing interrupted (which imho is the only reason for a sorc/wizzy to put much more than 10-12 points in CON), I've found that in nwn, you'll end up with a good enough concentration for Constitution to be of less importance.

Usually I go with Dealan as Henchman, and uses familiar for trap detecting/disarming and lock opening, thus I'm not counting on getting severely hit, so hit points is of even less importance in that case.

 

I strongly favour con based wizards, as opposed to dex ones. Lets not forget, wizard's main strenght are his spells, augmented by intelligence and spellcasting feats. That's why secondary stat should be the one complementing the first one best.

To examine the benefits of Dex:
Reflex saving throws, ranged attack bonus, AC better for +3/+4

Armor class gained by this lacks Uncanny dodge, making it unreliable, not to mention rather trivial. Ranged attack bonus can also be disregarded, since if you're shooting things with a crossbow or a bow, you're playing your wizard poorly.
Best of these, if of course, the reflex save bonus. The point about it, though, is that it will make little difference. If it's meant to protect you from your own AOE attacks, it'll fail, since your DC should be far above any reasonable save roll you can muster with your reflex save being on the low end. I suppose it's good against enemies in OC, simply because of the abysmal difficulty.

Higher constitution bonuses:
Fort save - Same as for dex save, not enough to protect you against your own spells, but will help against minor fort attacks, such as poison (Ironguts spell also comes to mind).
Naturaly, the main thing are the bonus hit points. If you play a dwarf, or even better, a gnome, there's little to advert you from putting a clean 18 in con, thus simply doubling your hit points. I usualy put in 19 and combine it with Endurance and any con items i can find that dont have an int counterpart, emerging with hit points that exceed those of some melee characters, namely dex oriented monks and such.


After spells, Hit Points are the best defence you can get. It protects against just about anything, elemental&magical&physical damage,... I tend to think of it as a buffer. The larger the better, as long as you're not sacrificing spell power for it, which is rarely, because of the +12 stat bonus limit in the game.

Even with all the protective spells around, there's always a chance to get hit, or critical hit, dex helps squat in these extreme situations, con does.
Another big bonus, if you do get into a crisis where you're getting pummeled, with a dex build, you wont be making saves in any decently challenging envoroments.

I really dont see how could dex equal con wizard builds.


Of course, that doesnt matter much in OC, it does in multiplaying worlds though.

 

Are there any useful minor multiclasses for a Wizard or is it best to just go pure?

 

Probably better to just go pure wizard, HB, although either Monk or Rogue can be useful to get the Evasion feat, especially if you've taken feats to boost your saves or have a Dexterity-based wizard.

It really just depends on your build - a Constitution-based wizard should really just go pure-class.

 

I prefer a Fighter 1 Rogue 2 Wizard X build. You lose some spellcasting power, but you get extra savings (+3 to Reflex from Rogue, +2 to Con from fighter) and evasion. I do not agree with Gothmog that your Reflex save can't get high enough to matter. On the contrary. With some buff spells (or bard song, if you have one in the party) you can get your saves above 25 easily. Add to that the evasion feat... and you won't mind very much fighting enemy spellcasters at high levels (since they typically use damage based attacks, which you can disregard entirely).

(Of course, you should not have problems fwith fighter types anyhow).

Also, the fighter level gives you access to most of the weapons and all armor. True, you should not wear medium or heavy armor anyhow, but it is good to be able to yield a greatsword.

ah, don't forget to put skill points in tumble when you get those Rogue levels. bring your skill to at least 10, (that also gives you +2 to AC) and you'll incurr almost no attacks of opportunity when moving around in combat.

 

I suppose it all comes down to what kind of a world you're playing in. If it's easy and monsters have low saves, spell DCs and no/less spell resistance you might reap some merit from building a dexterity mage, especialy if in a party, where you have others to protect you from the gravest threat - melee. Also definitely more fun at lower levels when your spells arent that numerable, being able to dish out some damage safely behinds the lines with a ranged weapon. And as long you dont have to worry against PvP mages, even better.
For instance if you're playing OC, way to go, reflex should save your ass at least a few times against AoE attacks.

That said, it's still often more favourable building on classical wizard weaknesses rather than expanding your spellcaster into an acrobat
If you're directly in the line of fire, you should have some spell shields up to protect against most reflex based damage. If it isnt you who is targeted and still near enough to get hit by a blast/cone, then what the hell are you doing there anyway... you're supposed to be somewhere safe, slinging out spells, while letting your summons/henchmen/party members engage and distract your enemy up close.

Another point... I sincerely doubt a wizard can buff his slower advancement save-reflex high enough to evade his own AoE spells. By a wizard i mean having greater spell focus in evocation. Add extraordinary intelligence and spell level (which, btw, progresses faster than your reflex/con save) and you're having one hell of a time rolling that 18+ roll to save your own fireball.


To boot, if the AI is any good, or if there's some nasty DMs around, controling NPC spellcasters, you're likely to get hit by a Finger of Death or some similar spell. Kinda standard tactics, fort based instant death on a low fort spellcaster. If you're playing your wizard right, it's as likely to happen as getting hit by a reflex based attack. Constitution helps, but you're supposed to have a spell shield up anyway


Of course, often it's not reqired to have a completely dedicated, focused and maximised spellcaster, there's high chance you'd have more fun with a hybrid, having some skills outside the classical wizard mold. I for one, like to take some levels of rogue, at strategic character levels. A wizard has far more skill points than needed and rogue's the ideal choice for it. Not to mention a lot of rogue skills are dependant on intelligence (without rogue levels you arent able to disarm DC35+ traps, even if you have the skill). Dex based wizards get the edge here, getting a few bonus points to some roguish skills that depend on dex. Most wizards would surely show disdain over skulking around in shadows and trying to move silently, when your magical might allows you better for no more than a lvl3 spell

 

Dexterity is vital for my current wizard in order to make use of Arcane Archer levels in the future.

 

Ah, but that's why you have your Shadow Shield up all the time It's a great spell; complete protection against necro-type spells, +5 to natural AC (thus freeing your amulet slot for smth more useful), 10/+3 damage reduction, and lasts a good amount to boot. And it's the same level as finger of death.

I don't quite see why fireball is so hard to evade. The DC is 10 + 3 + int modifier (say 10, for a 30 int wizard) + 6 (from epic spell focus) so 29. A reflex bonus save of around 20 is quite easy to achieve, if we talk epic levels. (Actually , it could easier be close to 30). The point is DC for spells is capped (do not improve with levels) but saves are not.

(also, there are lots of ways to increase your saves. spells, items, ... your spellcraft skill only should give you +5 agains magic)

Still, I agree that it depends on the campaign. I did not play any PvP so far, so it might be different. In the single payer campaigns, I find it very convenient to be able to ignore area of effect spells cast by opposing mages. I remember the Valsharess casting hellball, I was going, yeah, whatever

 

I think there's no such thing as a universal good wizard build. There are so many different spells, schools of magic and feats, even styles of playing, that it must be a personal experience. It's really hard to get it wrong if you have enough INT to cast your spells and enough CON or DEX to survive (not like a wizard can't survive without either of those exceeding 10, anyway). I suggest making up your mind regarding the initial preferences and then taking Spell Focus feats in the areas that interest you the most (or spells you like the most), Spell Penetration feat if you face spell-resistant enemies, then the kind of metamagic that you think you could use (if you prefer your spells to last longer, deliver more damage, be cast in armour etc).

Then again, you might wish to spend your feat slots on feats that improve skills or offer other benefits, not restricted to wizards in their usefulness, such as Toughness (+1 HP for each level you have is not so little if 4 is your max and 2.5 your average roll) or Improved Criticals: Longsword (for Tenser's).

As for multiclasses, starting as Rogue(2) and switching over to Wizard(x) sounds like a good idea. You get lots of skill points and Evasion, as well as some better reflex save. Fighter(1) isn't bad if you want armour or weapons better than wizards are normally trained in using. Fighter(4) with Specialisation in the kind of summoned weapon you use the most often isn't such a bad idea, either (don't know if Weapon Specialisation in bow works for arrow spells). Even rangers and barbarians have some benefits. From prestige classes, Arcane Archer if you're elven and into battlemages. Perhaps Wizard(x)/Weaponmaster(7) with longsword as favoured weapon (for Tenser's Sword) and Improved Criticals: Longsword for some intense fun.

 

Nice points, Chev. I’m definitely aiming to develop a wizard who can also use a long-bow, something that meets what I see as fitting the partial definition of an arcane archer in the manual (a wizard adding combat capability).

But a big element in all this is the progression of the character. It’s all very well coming up with a great level 30 build if it’s sheer hell getting there. A good character needs to work at every level, in my opinion.

Which is what makes it really tough to multi-class your wizard, because at each level up you are so looking forward to the next level of spells, especially at the low levels when your wizard is so weak. For example, at Wizard 4, it would be really tough to not take Wizard as your 5th level because the jump up in spell power is significant for the character who has been limping along with a magic missile and an acid splash.

So you have the question of WHEN is the best time to multi-class your wizard?

 

@khaavern

Aye, fort save advantage against death spells indeed is a moot point for a shadow shielded wizard. Kinda forgot the spell when i was writing the post. Plus, makes you look really alien-ish, with the blackness covering you all over

As for reflex saves against AoE spells... again, you're right. It's, however, true that you need a character well into epic to reach the needed reflex save for some fair chance of sucess. Up until then, the save DC does rise faster than your reflex save.
There are items to increase it, but using them to boost your reflex save does make you miss some other, rather important stuff. Instead of boots of reflex +x, you could have dodge as well as con bonus, for example.


@Harbourboy
As you noticed, wizards just about double their power when they get another spell level, so it's best for you to check arcane spell list and see which spell level you wont be needing too much. Hard choice to make though. spell level 1 you cant take AA, spell level 2, same, spell level 3 you get fireball, haste, spell level 4 stoneskin, imp. invisibility, Polymorph self (troll rocks), lvl5 firebrand and suddenly you're a full fledged mage, capable of dealing with anything with his magic alone

 

@Harbourboy:

(Click here)

As Arcane Archer requires BAB +6, you will need either Wizard(12) or Fighter(4)/Wizard(4) before you're eligible. Taking your first AA level won't be a tragedy with either of those. The former is a wizard with a hobby, the latter is a battlemage also eligible for Weapon Specialisation: Longbow.

Note that as a Human Wizard(12), you may also be eligible for the Weapon Master class (15 with other classes, less than 12 if you mix with Fighter). However, the feat selection is such that only a melee-intense battlemage will benefit from it.

Perhaps Dwarven Defender wouldn't be such a bad idea for dwarven wizards, given that, although the BAB requirement is high for a wizard (BAB +7 comes at Wizard level 14), the Toughness feat is far from useless and Dodge isn't such a total waste. Any wizard would appreciate the defensive abilities of this class, although spells are obviously not gained, while BAB progression is full, so it gravitates towards battlemages.

If we are at level 14 wizards, Shadowdancer isn't a bad choice for those DEX-based ones, with Hide in Plain Sight, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Shadow Evade, Defensive Roll (avoid death with a ref save), Improved Evasion and +3 ref save from Uncanny Dodge 2 and 3.

[ November 21, 2005, 12:14: Message edited by: chevalier ]

 

To be honest, my level 4 Wizard is struggling so far (and level 5 still seems a long way off). I need to have Xanos (the world’s worst barbarian), a summoned Dire Boar, and a familiar around me for just about every encounter, otherwise I get munched in seconds. Unless things get better soon, I will have to declare Wizards to be completely lame in this game (or I am just useless at playing them).