Harm, simple question.

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This question will be very short, and it's almost not worth to put up a topic for it, but I got to get an answer to it. After the matter is cleared, I don't mind if somebody locks it up.

As pet title, I have a question about priest spell Harm. Is it possible to cast harm(which lasts, iirc, two rounds) and then after casting it, use the HLA Critical strike or Smite without harm already passing by without being used? I'm pretty sure everybody sees where I'm aiming with this. Granted, the usage of this tactic would be extremly limited(if it's even possible), but when used, results could be just... marvelous

Thanks for your time folks. And a happy new year to you all.

 

A few points about "Harm" spell:

There are actually two versions of the spell:

(1) The version available to players: It requires a successful hit and if it hits, it reduces target's hp to 1, but the damage can be blocked by the target's MR. The spell doesn't allow any saving throw.

(2) There is a second version of the spell which is only available to enemy clerics in the game: It doesn't require a "to hot" roll (it always hits) and it also bypasses the target's (PC's) MR. (And no saving throw)

The 'enemy' version of the spell is way more powerful than the PC version of it; but if the PC version is accompanied with critical strike, then it can be almost as powerful as the enemy version.

Now, from a modder's point of view, I see two options:

(a) We will either leave both versions of the spell as they are and will live with their consequences (i.e. enemy clerics may be scripted to use the enemy version of the spell against PCs with fatal consequences. Players, on the other hand, may combine their own version of the spell with Critical Strike against enemies).

(b) Or we will tweak both versions of the spell and will nerf them. For example, the enemy version can be tweaked not to bypass MR and to allow a save vs. spells (perhaps with a penalty) to avoid the damage; and the PC version of the spell can also be tweaked to let the target roll a saving throw to avoid the damage.

I think option (b) is a better choice to prevent unfair battles for both sides. What do you think?

 

How will critical strike do anything? If you crit with a spell that reduces your HP to 1, it still reduces your hp to 1.

Is there something I'm missing?

 

Critical strike HLA guarantees that you will hit the target regradless of his AC. You will roll a 20.

 

@Sikret: while I would think that your sollution is the right one(even if the "enemy" version of harm is still more powerful, if I understand everything correctly) your post still doesn't (directly)answer my question Althought, from what I read your answer would be positive, that yes, you can combine harm with critical strike and still make use of the spell. Is that right?

@omnigodly: aye, 'tis true what you say. But don't you see the opportunies that this offers you? In the vanilla game, there are many monsters that are tought to hit(dragons come to mind), and if you reduce them to 1 hp, the next hit will be very likely lethal for them. And since you have to roll to hit with harm, and monsters later in game have very good AC(-12 or so), critical hit is a sure way to reduce them down to 1 hp.

While I could live without this tactic in vanilla game, it would make my life MUCH easier in the moment, since I'm playing improved anvil. I don't know if you tried it, but let me tell you, this tactic would make my life much easier. And help me keep my nerves in one piece

 

Yes, mordokai! You can cast Critical strike after Harm spell. And yes, even after nerfing them, the enemy version of the spell will remain a bit more powerful than the version available to players, specially because it doesn't require any "to hit" role. Note that even with critical strike, your attack can still be blocked by 'Protection from Magical Weapons', while the enemy version of the spell doesn't have such a limitation. On the other hand, the enemy version of the spell can be blocked by SI:Necromancy which doesn't make much sense, because the version available to players doesn't have that limitation. It creates the effect in the caster's hands and inflicts the damage to the target after hitting it.

Perhaps the best thing to do for modders is not use the enemy version of the spell in their improved Clerics' scripts. Nerfing the version of the spell which is available to players is enough to prevent the exploit.

 

About the players' version of Harm it can be blocked also by:

- Minor S.Deflection/S.Deflection
- Minor S.Turning/S.Turning (and in this case the original caster gets harmed )
- S.Trap
- Shield of the Archons
- SI:Necromancy
- and a simple Mirror Image too if the player doesn't hit the real enemy


The enemy version of the spell is the one that uses Sendai from the Oversight mod and can hit the target from distance too?That version is quite cheesy though I think that the above protections can still block it.

 

Even the enemy version of the mod would not be cast from distance if the caster's script is coded properly. The Improved Sendai component of Oversight mod is not coded correctly and that's why Sendai can cast it from distance. (For those who were curious why we say that Improved Anvil doesn't use cheat and cheese in its scripts, this is a good example; you never find such errors in IA's scripts.)

Fortunately, IA v4.0 will have its own Improved Sendai component and players can play it.

 

^And I am well looking for your version of Improved Sendai! Can't wait! Can't imagine HOW it can be tougher than Oversight's.