Hot Sauce, Cold Showers: Child Abuse?

Ok, that is a strange one...

While I agree that there are certainly worse things that can be done to a child, what was done here has to have crossed some line that aught not be crossed. Whilst humiliation is not illegal, I'm quite certain that this sort of behavior shouldn't be condoned.

And I have to agree with the prosecutor's closing argument, there really is no excuse or reason for this sort of behavior. Especially towards someone whose care is your responsibility. If the woman is this starved for attention, I question her suitability as a parent.

 

BTA: I believe that was the defense argument as well. The prosecution on the other hand argued the woman did these things specifically to get on TV -- the intent was to make the child suffer so she could get on the Dr Phil show. I believe it was that intent that got the jury to convict.

The child is obviously terrified in the cold shower -- shoved in ~50°F water really causes the body to react drastically. At least she didn't require the child to lay in a cold bath (vividly describe in "A Child Called It"). I can't tell how the child reacts to "hot saucing" which is a current trend in punishment -- but I can tell you the method most likely violates the Geneva Convention on chemical warfare.

I personally believe if a punishment violates the Geneva convention on the treatment of soldiers at war it should also qualify as abuse. I question of Office of Children's Services findings.

 

Hot sauce I'm guessing containing capsicum as the main source of heat?

Capsicum triggers the sensation of pain (even through the delicioussnes ) you can get sauces that come with warnings and the methods of cooking with them involve using a toothpick to measure it properly into a large pan.

She tips the bottle into the kids mouth. Not a spoonful whilst screaming at him and doesn't let him swallow it. Capsicum, of course, seeps out over time.

The cold shower I think T2Bruno covered concisely.

The video is horrible. The poor child is screaming in pain in the shower and she just keeps shouting at him It's disgusting.

 

If this stupid woman did this crap to get on a TV show she most definitely deserves the conviction. I'm not sure if this "hot saucing" meets the legal definition for abuse, but I do know I would never use it myself. It seems bizarre and painful and I can see it triggering any number of damaging and possibly lethal reactions from sensitive kids.

 

Seems like child abuse to me.

 

While there's child abuse and then there's *child abuse*. While this is abuse it's sort of your regular child abuse. I'm glad she got convicted so she won't do it again, but I'm unsure if she deserves any type of jail time that the article says. I mean, the hot sauce isn't going to kill you, and in half and hour it probably feels fine, and recovery from the cold shower happens pretty much as soon as you get out of the shower.

The stupid part was that she filmed it in a publicity stunt. For that alone, she deserves some level of punishment, I'm just not sure jail time is appropriate.

 

Crazy stuff dreamt up by a deranged mind trying to circumvent the letter of the law on child abuse.

Cold showers, for instance, is something prisoners have in some places been exposed to routinely, since being cold, wet and miserable is seriously demoralising. It has generally been condemned as abusive and as no-touch torture.

And as for the 'saucing' - a friend of mine likes African cuisine, and after cutting some crazy exotic African peppers he had the stuff on his hands and touched his neck. He got a itching rash as a result that remained painful for a week. I can't eat the stuff he makes. I presume that using some really hot sauce can cause a painful skin reaction similar or worse to the one after spanking. Only difference is in the effect mechanics - chemical, as opposed to physical impact.

So, I agree with Snook, it's abuse IMO.

 

BTA,
the dose makes the poison. The keys are intent, and duration and intensity of the application. It is easily conceivable that something like that can rise to the level of criminality (and even torture).

 

I had a friend who cut up really hot peppers and as soon as he finished decided to go to the bathroom. He washed his adds after finishing up, but not before. He also got some irritation in a lot more of a sensitive part than your neck.

 

Isn't the intention of creating pain and fear enough to make it abuse?

 

Not necessarily. Fear is an important tool for a parent with young children. I want my kids to fear what might happen to them if they run into the street. I want them to fear what might happen to them if a car crashes into them.

It never occurs to a kid that running into the street is a bad idea... unless you tell them. And since kids thrive on exercising their independence (i.e. they routinely want to do what they are told not to do), adding in a healthy dose of fear to ensure they don't end up as road-kill is a great way to keep a child alive.

Abuse? I think not.

As with everything there is a line you can cross, absolutely. But your comment makes no such distinctions.

 

No I don't, isn't your goal to make your child safe? How can you make someone safe by hurting them? Isn't that a paradox? I am hitting you so you won't get hit? I am giving you a freezing shower to keep you warm?

 

I never said anything about hurting a child. I responded to your comment about the intent to create fear.

I might address the pain part later... but I'm late for a meeting.