Ideas for a new system

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See, i just had this great idea of us figuring out what makes a good system. There are many out there, but either they are really unrealistic, or they simply lack something.
It wouldnt really be a new system really, more like a construction made of lots and lots of different and modified parts of other systems.

What do ya think?

 

I think a good system as one you make for yourself and edit it whenever you think you have to just start a storyline see how it turnes out and let all the ruling depend on the actions of the players...

We are playing this way and it's great!

 

Well, classless and alignmentless for a start. There should be no straightjacketing, simply choose skills and act as you wish your character to.

 

What is straightjacking?

 

Classless, fine.
But how do you suppose will be playing without an alignment. It sums up general character stereotypes pretty well. At least the main characteristics.
Character definitions would certainly expand very much. This way you can generaly sum up your character morals in two words.
If we had none, there still should be some grids on which you could measure your disposition.

Oh, my, i'm too tired to think right now. Been studying maths for 4 hours now = acomplished mental torture to me. I even had to look 2 words in a dictionary just for that text above
Tomorrow: EDIT

 

I have played several systems without alignments, and they sure are working just fine. Gives you much more freedom.

 

I figure I'm going to get the rotten tomatoes with this post, but what I like about D&D is that it's both "crunchy" and has lots of room for roleplaying.

I will admit that sometimes it's fun making a decent character and placing him in battle, and then getting loot and then moving on to more dungeons and monsters to conquer. It's crunchy, but it is something that I do enjoy - I find numbers fun.

It's also fun roleplaying, and I think that the roleplaying experience doesn't have to be hindered by "powergaming" - sometimes it can be enhanced by it.

Just my two cents. I'm not exactly sure how getting rid of classes or alignments directly makes you a better person or makes a game funner.

[ April 05, 2004, 02:41: Message edited by: Oaz ]

 

Who said it was? But then, the same can be asked about having classes and alignment. These are just two aspects that I don't like of D&D.

Straightjacketing would be when you're set on a path which has no opportunity to change, or the change is restricted in some way (eg: classes being a set path of development for the character. Alignment being the set path of morals.)

I don't think that alignment is really necessary, and at times I think it's quite annoying. Spells like 'detect alignment' and rules such as 'Paladins can't travel with people of evil alignment' (gah, mental block!) kinda sorta take away from it. People have different views in what is 'good' and 'evil' too. Your Paladin of Zong might think that killing the children of the land of Pling is a good and wonderful deed - freeing them from the horror that is their society (or whatever).

 

I've been thinking about AC.
There's all sorts of it, but mainly dexterity+dodge, vs armor+shield.

When you're fighting a fire giant in full plate, carrying a tower shield and get hit, you'll surely feel something eventhough when the dice is rolled it show a miss - taking no damage. Might be the fighter partly dodged and used his shield and armor to receive a glancing blow, thus protecting him from any real harm. But this is much closer to dex and dodge AC then.

Second thing is dexterity bonus providing extra HP dice. As i see it there are two things that affect HP. Toughness (simply can take more damage) and avoidance of any serious damage (gains with level).
So, what i'm saying is that the higher the level a dexterity relying character is, the more HPs he should have.
Simple, better dodge&dex AC means he can avoid getting hurt. If he does he should still avoid any serious damage by, again, dodging it.
Toughness though, does not progress that much with level. Human body has its limits as far as damage goes. Further, there's magic, but that's not the case now.

I hope i'm making some sense here.

 

Gothmog - you should definitely check out Unearthed Arcana and the d20 Modern system.

To give you an idea of what those two systems have to offer, Unearthed Arcana has a variant rule for using different kinds of hit points - hit points (representing wounds you turn into less serious wounds) and wound points (your actual health). D20 Modern has a class bonus to AC, where as you increase in levels of any class, your AC increases at a proportional rate.

Aikanaro - D20 doesn't use Alignment, but uses an Allegiance system, where Allegiance represents who or what you are loyal to (a country, a political belief, an organization, etc.)

 

Rokugan d20 (based on the Legend of the Five Rings card game)also doesn't focus on alignment so much. Since it's based on oriental culture, it focuses much more on concepts of loyalty then good and evil. Being Lawful Evil in that game commands more respect then being Chaotic Good; it plays much more into law vs. chaos.

Shadowrun is both alignmentless and classless, and though the game has its faults, the character creation aspect is great. I've always been a huge fan of diceless character creation; it isn't fair that one person can have a character that is strictly superior to another PC simply because his die rolls turned out better. I like it when every player starts out with the same resources with which to build a character, and they all go from there.

I know this point has been addressed, but class and especially alignment are only restrictions if you allow them to be. Alignment is not a concrete code on how to play your character; your DM shouldn't go "You can't do that, because your character is Lawful Good, etc." You decide how to play your character, and your alignment should change accordingly. Planescape: Torment provides the best example of how alignment was meant to be used; virtually every action you took made you more lawful, chaotic, good or evil.

I personally like alignment as a roleplaying tool. Part of the reason to take a paladin in D&D is the alignment restriction; if you can't play lawful good, play a fighter instead. It's more interesting to play a character that must adhere to a strict code; it's fun and challenging, and that's what roleplaying is all about. In the Rokugan setting I mentioned above, a samurai is defined by loyalty; if your lord told you to butcher your entire family, you'd do it (although it would be incredibly dishonorable for him to do so) because you literally belong to him; a samurai is property. The way their culture views the situation is that any attempt you make to stop your evil lord will only make matters worse; best to let karma do it's work, he'll get his in the end.

While there's certainly nothing wrong with open ended games, I enjoy some level of rigidity in a set of rules. There's nothing wrong with a game dictating the cultural rules that govern a character, and leaving it up to the player to roleplay that character according to those rules. I don't want to be Joe the university student in an oriental setting; I'd rather Kakkita Kichioro of the Crane Clan operate as a completely separate entity, who operates on a set of cultural values quite different from my own. Sometimes structure breeds a lot more creativity then freedom does; I've played both classless and class based systems, and I honestly can't say that classless provides a more satisfying gaming experience.

 

I don't mind that - so long as you can change allegiance whenever you want to without rules based penalties (as in, it may affect how those in the world think of you, but you won't take an EXP hit as you would changing alignments in D&D).

Personally I prefer character creation with dice. Not everyone is the same or has the same potential, a bit of randomness makes each character different.

But then - who is this system aiming for? The 'hardcore' roleplayers, the 'hardcore' powergamers, or just your normal average roleplaying gamer?
If aimed at the roleplayers then I say let them choose their own stats between numbers x and y. If aimed at the powergamers, let them roll (after all, you can't get truely brilliant stats if everyone has the same potential). The average gamer might want point-buy system.
Or hell - make all three an option, and have the group choose a method (and don't say that it will be abused - if this is a game we're playing, why should we care? We can put on our own restrictions within the group.)

Hmm, big section of waffle deleted here because I stopped making any sense at all.
Maybe a system of regional reputation instead of alignment. The people of Zong would think your paladin did a great deed and now you're a hero. In Pling everyone would hate you (assuming, of course, that they knew it was you).

 

D20 Modern allows you to drop an allegiance whenever you want to, but you can only pick up allegiances when you gain a level (so you can't change allegiances willy-nilly, which is good, since there are often bonuses when a character deals with a person with the same allegiances).

I definitely agree that in a a campaign with relative morals (Alhandra was praised as a champion of good for defeating the formidable Giant armies, but her name is now spoken as an evil curse and profanity in the Giant tongue), an Allegiance system is one way to go. The main problem you find is that something to be done about alignment-based effects (What happens to a Paladin's Smite Evil ability now that what is evil depends on the eye of the beholder?).

 

My paladins behold evil everywhere they see. It's a product of the paranoid schitzophrenia. Goblins? Smite! Small children bearing flowers? Smite! Inanimate statues? Smite! Changing tide? You know where this is going. Consider thyself smote, force of nature!

The idea of the group voting on what system they use to assign stats is a pretty interesting one. I'll have to try that out sometime if I ever do any DMing.

 

Something I found whilst browsing RPGCodex:

Sharpei_Diem said:

Hmm, large quote. Anyhow, I like the idea of a pool of unused potential and stuff, though it may be difficult, depending on how many skills there are. Maybe a system of every X amount of skills added another Y is added to the top amount of potential (though that could be painfully fiddly to figure out the X and Y values)

The ability to change alliances willy nilly would be bad. 'OK, so I go over to there and change my allegiance to theirs so they'll accept me.'
But then, I also don't agree with changing with levels. Maybe this is more of a game-thing than a rule-thing. The DM can decide when it's appropriate, or if a situation comes up that it seems in character to do so they can change. However, this would all rely on roleplaying.
Also, you would only get positive reactions with people of the same allegiance if they knew that and believed you.

Well, I would say throw out alignment based effects entirely. If that's not viable, Smite Evil would smite that which the paladin's god believes is evil.

(And link to the thread that's quoted from: http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4026 )

 

I'd say its so as well. To advance it a little futher, that means the paladin's deity too (if he has one).
In fact, anyone can be a paladin. As long as he truly belives himself to be the champion of good and have some deity/power behind him, why not?


About the quote above... I dont think it's that great. If players know they have only that much space to develop in they go and make character builds. What i mean is IWD2 type game. There's a level limit, and very, very few people create a fighter with 15INT just for the means of roleplaying it. Builds test grounds in whole.


IMHO the best thing to do is to wipe everyone's D&D numerical section memory out and then start playing. Or in case you're dealing with players new to the system, mention not any numbers at all. Just describing things.
Got to run now, hehe

 

Like I said forget numbers and rules let your players make caracters and let them run free in your campaing.

If they encounter something roll a die and say what the outcome means (And YES since there are no rules you can cheat with this one!). It's real fun!