Illegal Strip Searches at Reagan National

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The issue was raised on this boards before, but at that point there was only potential for abuse. Remember the talk about screening? First it was screening, but then they moved to actual strip-searching. Quite a logical sequence, if you ask me. National security, heh.

 

Well, as much as I'd like to, I can't disagree with that. Airports suck.

Edit, well actually strip searching is nothing new, that's how they catch drug smugglers, etc. Except now they're trying to find hand grenades.

 

Sometimes strip-searching is necessary. But it's done by people of your own sex. Airports can afford hiring even additional female guards for the purpose. There is no need and no justification for having male and female guards strip-search female passengers. I think you will agree with me on this one, won't you?

 

Yup.

 

I find this whole story to be of dubious truthfulness. Granted, I'm not a woman, so I suppose this wouldn't happen to me. However, given the frequency in which I have to fly for my job, and given the number of people I work with that also have to fly frequently, and given that many times we fly out of Reagan National (either there or BWI) I have never heard about anything like this from anyone.

Now, I am from Eastern European decent, and I have a goatee, so I look like a terrorist. There are many times I've been asked to step away from the security area and I am questioned - usually extensively following my response to: "Have you been in contact with any chemical, biological or nuclear weapons?" However, they've never asked me to remove any items of clothing beyond my belt (because of it's metal buckle) when using that wand thingie that they have for detecting weapons and the like.

If people are actually stripping for these people, then they are fools. You have a right to request the presence of a police officer for a strip seach, and I'm willing to bet that the local security would be reluctant to get one for you...

 

That is agreed, but people often don't know the details about their rights and if they're in a hurry at that... I don't know how it works for that particular airport, but what if they stop you for strip search and there's no time to call a police officer before your plain sets off? However, if they did call a police officer, I bet it would be the police officer who would do the search and would not necessarily need the guard guy in the room, and the said police officer would actually be female... or am I wrong? I don't think it's normal for male policemen to strip-search females even in the US where the police has more power than, let's say, in Europe.

Edit: http://www.libertarianrock.com/topics/stripsearch/cdsearch.html

Here's another example. Teenagers given the choice to strip down or "the teachers would strip them". This actually means a teacher would tear your clothes off you against your will. IMHO the teachers should serve a couple of years in jail, but they probably won't even receive a reprimand. It's a pity the parents can only really sue them for money instead of getting them properly indicted.

Edit2: http://archive.aclu.org/community/washing/rptwa8.html

A boy strip-searched by a female teacher. At least not a girl by a male teacher, so there was most probably no sexual overtone on the teacher's side, but still.

Edit3:

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/0,,SB108061045899868615-IRje4Nmlah3oJ6uZIKJcaWIm4,00.html

The man who ordered strip-searches was an impostor and not a policeman. But still, the MALE restaurant had FEMALE customers and employess strip COMPLETELY NAKED. One of those cases involved a SEVENTEEN year old girl strip-searched by a restaurant manager.

Hoax or not hoax, if impostors can do that, it means the police can do that as well. That the real police would only do that in serious cases and all? Maybe. But they still grab a girl or a woman and have her strip naked in front of men.

Is there no law in the US that says only females can strip-search females?

Edit4:

The URL: http://www.aba.ne.jp/~sugita/13engfuku.html

The teacher was female, but what a degenerate would do that? I lack words on this one.

Edit5:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strip_search

Wikipedia claims opposite gender strip-searching is sometimes considered legal in the US. Presence of person of the opposite gender seems to be a normal thing.

My God... and they call it the home of democracy and freedom.

Edit6:

http://www.abqjournal.com/north/259711north_news11-18-04.htm?rrc

One woman strip-searched by a man. Another ordered to, but refused. It's also said to be common practice around there. A minor offence is enough - like selling alcohol to minors - to allow a MALE guard to have a FEMALE detainee strip TOTALLY NAKED.

Edit7:

Another strip search of a woman by a man: http://www.forensic-evidence.com/site/Police/Pol_stripsearch.html

Edit8:

Oh, I have finally found that the US law actually does prohibit same gender searches. Here's the link:

http://www.yourrights.org.uk/your-r...ts-in-the-police-station/strip_searches.shtml

It just seems no one cares about the law.

Edit9: Brooklyn case:

http://www.gothamgazette.com/article/00000000/4/1113

Publicly, in front of inmates and opposite sex officers.

Edit10: Massive (tens of thousands) strip searches in New York:

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/sebok/20010115.html

Edit11:

http://www.gothamgazette.com/iotw/police/

Yeah, where is the line?

Edit12:

Massive California case: http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/24/2110246

Edit13:

Eighty year old woman. Doesn't say if by male or female guards. Airport, of course. http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/7/2/163539.shtml

Edit14:

A female teacher strip-searched by deputies:

http://www.nospank.net/n-h35.htm

Edit15:

A 15 year old girl, open window, open door, people congregating and walking by:

http://www.aclu-wa.org/Issues/privacy/Okanogan.html

Edit16:

Two girls aged 16, strip search, adult cell, no charges ever. At least the officer was female.

http://www.unknownnews.net/c0808-1.html

Edit17:

Massive, illegal and obscene prom search of students. Same sex searchers, fortunately:

http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=407

Edit18:

MALE restaurant manager strip-searching two FEMALE employees, aged 18 and 19 over just "telephoned instructions" or other bull****.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=385829

Edit19:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3190/is_12_38/ai_114785876

My God... they had her strip and run naked in front of MALE and female managers.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not blaming the police or the government here. I'm just wondering who the **** has ever given MALES the right to strip-search FEMALES?

Edit20: Freedom of speech leads to being completely strip-searched:

http://www.splc.org/report_detail.asp?id=747&edition=20

Edit21:

Deep search, including anal search of women in front of male guards and male inmates who watched.

http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=70892

Edit22:

Another account of the full strip-search, including jogging naked and suggestive poses, of a TEEN GIRL in front of MALE managers in MacDonalds:

http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/1084

Edit23:

The same girl, another account. From the trial. Now it seems the window was opened or something and passers-by were able to see the teen girl jog naked in front of male as well as female staff.

http://www.neusysinc.com/columnarchive/colm0183.html

Edit24:

ACLU of Colorado. Same sex searchers, but seeing what they invented is enough for a small breakdown:

http://www.aclu-co.org/news/pressrelease/release_mckay2.htm

Edit25:

Repeated strip-search of female motorists by a male state trooper, no action taken against him for way too long:

http://www.freespeech.com/archives/002350.html

Edit26:

Strip-search of a FEMALE with a MALE officer WATCHING.

http://www.newsreview.com/issues/chico/2002-01-17/crime.asp

Edit27:

From Human Rights Watch:

http://www.hrw.org/women/custody.html

Edit28:

Strip-search of a muslim woman. The MALE officer agreed to get out of the room only because of the woman's desperate criest about her religious beliefs. If she were an ordinary Caucasian woman of a different religious persuausion than Muslim, I guess she would have been forced to strip naked with the male officer present. Here's the link: http://www.refuseandresist.org/newrepression/020102stripsearch.html

Just so you don't think I have an anti US bias, here's the appropriate piece of a Canadian bill:

http://www.canlii.org/ca/as/1999/c20/sec22.html
Obviously no ban on same sex searches. Some problems have happened. Also, Australia has it with strip-searches. Well, China makes no surprise, I guess...

[ December 07, 2004, 05:36: Message edited by: chevalier ]

 

First I wonder why women should get special treatment, even you Chev agree that there is no problem with men being stripsearched by women.

Secondly I would think that some guys who work at the airport, who are there every day, eight hours a day would seriously pay much interest in a special passenger. That means that I would mind just as little about my sister or girlfriend being stripsearched at the airport as I would mind she having to strip in front of a doctor.

Just as there probably are a few sleazy doctors out there I am sure there are some sleazy security people out there but every system has its flaws.

 

I didn't say there was no problem with men being strip-searched by women. I said the problem was lesser in gravity than with women being strip-searched by men. I only said I wouldn't care about a/the searcher being female if they were to search me. Reasoning: if you are male, guys too eager to strip-search you are probably at least bisexual and you're clearly in for some trouble. A woman is far less dangerous even if she shows some kind of sexual interest before or excitement during the procedure. And women are much less visual than men, so they care less. In plain words: a woman is less likely to drool over a naked man than a man over a naked woman. Even if she did drool, I could live with it. But for a woman, it's different. Note that many if not most men would disagree with me on this one and still insist on the searcher being male.

Plus, male private parts are considered less private than female parts. I have already mentionned men being visual and being sexually stimulated by naked female bodies. Next, a couple of posts ago, I pointed out that males are bigger and stronger.

All in all, opposite sex strip-search is more humiliating for women than for men.

After going through all this depressing material, I feel sick and I need a break. Time for some responses. No one can say there's no evidence of any abuse now.

[ December 06, 2004, 23:44: Message edited by: chevalier ]

 

Uh, ya. How about this. Strip searches are NOT mandatory in the united states. If you don't want to participate just leave. If you are detained wait until the police arrive and you can strip for them if the situation warrants it. However in most cases it doesn't a simple metal/explosives detector wand will find whatever you don't want found. Also, in ALL airports the farthest that a strip search is allowed to go by airport officials is shirt(to undershirt if females are not presant), shoes, and socks. No metal or explosives found and no probable cause and you can actually get airport officials fired for misconduct. Another thing is for the military people out there; traveling in uniform NO airport is allowed to search you, or your bags at anypoint of getting to your destination(national law) so you don't have to take your shoes off to cross the metal detector.

 

Actually, more disturbing than the strip searches are the cavity searches. That can't be pleasant regardless of whether you're a man or a woman.

 

In trouble how? What are you afraid would happen - the guy would force you to bend over so he can "have his way" with you? Personally, I would feel just as uncomfortable getting strip-searched whether it was a male or female, gay or straight.

 

It's not the same for everyone, I guess, but I would have less trouble with it if the person were keeping it impersonal and asexual. So long as it were impersonal and asexual, male or female and gay or straight I wouldn't mind. Trouble begins when someone seems to be personal and insisting about picking you for strip-search and there's no apparent reason. But please let's get back to the topic. I only wanted to state that opposite sex strip-searches are more of the problem for women than for men. The latter is still somewhat wrong, but the former is simply criminal.

 

And I think Splunge's point (that I happen to agree with) is why should we have a different set of rules for the two different genders? Regardless of how chev or I or Splunge personally feel, I can understand that some men being strip seached by a woman may find that just as humiliating and degrading as some women find being strip seached by a man. As far as I know, there is no scientific means to prove that any one specific situation will have a greater psychological affect on a woman than a man. Even if it is possible to say that MOST men wouldn't have a problem with it, and MOST women would have a problem with it, that statement implies that there will be instances where one specific man could be more affected than some women. Because of this, I feel the rules should be enforced across the board, and that regardless of the person being searched, it is criminal for the searcher to be of a different gender than the searchee if said searchee is uncomfortable with that arrangement.

 

It'd be okay if you could choose who does the strip search -- I'd personally request Famke Janssen.

 

Polling a representative group is quite scientific, but I doubt anyone has done or will do that any soon. I know that ad casu it may look different. Some women would shake it off easily. Some men would get a lifelong trauma. Much depends on the searcher as well. But I still believe my point about men being bigger and stronger and female parts being more private than male parts as a result of typical gender views in our civilisation. This is particularly true for searches that involve only showing private parts, not being cavity-searched or anything. In the latter case there probably isn't much difference. I believe the percentage of women uncomfortable with showing their body to strangers would be higher than respective percentage of men.

Please understand that what I said, I said to stress that the problem with women being searched by men is bigger than opposite gender searching as an abstract. By this I don't mean that criminal penalties should be different. Both should be qualified by the same legal rule stating a prison term and dishonourable discharge for that.

I agree, but I think you aren't going far enough. Criminal if the searchee is uncomfortable with that arrangement still leaves too much room for abuse. I would generalise and make it criminal in all cases. Particular officers could defend themselves saying the searchee agreed, but the burden of proof would lie with them. I want no room for "alleged consent" or "allegedly free consent", and I can hardly imagine a female searchee being comfortable with a male searcher.

Well, let's make a poll.