JoePa - Moral Obligations in Child Sexual Assault Cases

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Sandusky case.

I am sure many of you have heard about the blow up going on at Penn St. currently, leading to the firing of Joe Paterno, one of the most beloved football coaches in the nation. Sandusky, an ex-coach, is accused of sexually assualting several boys over the last decade or so while running a children's program at Penn St. McQueary, an ex-player and QB coach at the University has testifed that he witnessed one of the assualts and reported it to his hire-ups, starting with Paterno, the Football coach, who in turn brought it to the attention of school officials. Who did squat about it.

What do you think are person's moral obligations if they are told by another that they viewed an assualt case on a child? Whre do their repsonsiblities stop? It's a very touchy subject and one I find I am in disagreement with many over, even knowing I have children.

Personally, I feel all the responsiblity is on the viewer myself. They are the one who can bring it to the attention of Legal Authorities. They are the witness. Telling your boss who has no legal authority is NOT the course of action to be taken. Contacting the police immediately is. I am not condemning McQueary, as it is hard for anyone to say what they would do in that situation, as most of us will never be in that spot. But I feel he took the wrong course of action. His postiion was a that of a lower level coach at the time and to go to his boss first makes me wonder if he was also thinking about his career as well. I am not sure what he was thinking, but I think he made a very bad choice.

As to the fallout, I am still unsure on how I feel about how they got rid of Paterno. Part of me thinks that anyone who was told about the assualt should of went to the police, but another part of me thinks it is the repsonsiblity of the witness to do so.

Thoughts?

 

For McQueary, I believe he had the legal obligation, as he witnessed it. For Paterno, it was hearsay( or whatever you call someone telling you they viewed something illegal...hearsay may be the wrong phrase here, my apologies if so....). Is he legally obligated to report "hearsay"? I think if he was, they would be going after him as well as any others... so I think he was not legally obligated.

Take a scenario where Person 1 views a rape of a child. He tells person 2 what he saw, who in turn tells 3 others, who all in turn tell 3 more people and etc.... until thousands are told the story. Are all who were told legally obligated to contact the authorities? Or just the person who actually witnessed it? I feel the witness is the only person who knows it actually happened. The rest are told a story only, with no actually base to prove it. (I am not defending anyone here btw...)

Many people are afraid of stating something they don't know to be true as they weren't the witness. I also feel some who do this aren't doing it because they are condoning the rape, but because they are afraid of confrontation. I don't fault those of that nature. I could wish they were stronger people, but I don't fault them. It is a fine line to me. If the orignal person making the allegation is telling a falsehood, you are basically condemning an innocent person and ruining their lives. Personally, when it involves a rape of a child, I would tell the cops immediately once I was told about it, as the child's welfare is of paramount importance to me. But not everyone possesses a strength of character to do so, regardless of what we would want them to do. I think there are lots of angles here to look at.

 

I agree (with the original point). Try putting yourself in that situation: if you became aware of sexual assaults on a minor at work, and you reported it to your superior, but your superior did nothing about it, would you shrug your shoulders and let it go? I'm pretty sure I could answer for everybody and say "not in a million years."

The problem here IMO comes with this prevailing notion these days that institutions like Penn State (and other large, noteworthy universities) are somehow a colossus that is 'larger than life' and thus not subject to the norms that the rest of us are. I suspect Paterno did nothing further for fear of damaging the mighty Penn State, which was, apparently, a less desireable outcome than a child sexual offender not being prosecuted.

I feel a bit bad for Paterno in that he was not really involved directly, and that it's a crappy way to end a storied career. (People will no doubt remember him for this now, first and foremost.) I feel less bad when I consider that he should have done some f*cking thing about a kid being raped and didn't. Forget the stupid university chain of authority protocol or whatever it is. That's all well and good for planning booster events and handling team curfew violations, but not at all appropriate or deserving of even a moment's consideration for dealing with serious criminal offenses.

Same goes for McQueary, who by rights should have beaten Sandusky within an inch of his life. (Okay maybe not, but I'd be hard-pressed not to go all 'medieval' on someone I caught sexually assaulting a child.)

 

When I first heard of this I was very Pro-Paterno. I figured he didn't see anything, and all he had was what someone else told him. He did what he was supposed to and reported it to the proper authorities (school administrators) per the guidelines.

However, I have been swayed to the other side of the argument. In College Station, PA Penn State is king. Nobody would ever want to do anything to besmirch the College, the Program, or the beloved Joe-Pa. I believe this quickly turned into everyone doing what they were "legally" supposed to, to meet the paperwork requirements. Then they let everything die and get swept under the rug. Paterno could have probably called for someone's execution and people would have lined up for the honor of killing someone for him. I now believe he had a moral and an ethical obligation to follow up on this. The fact that he was willing to work with someone for so many more years when he had knowledge of this condemns him in my eyes.

I don't believe he did anything illegal, and I don't think there is anything he can be prosecuted for, but his reputation is destroyed in my eyes. Even more than the pedophile as at least he probably has a mental problem.

 

What is up with most famous people being so mentally warped? It's like anyone with the smallest bit of fame is either a rapist or a hardcore drug addict.

 

Where to begin? I have a problem with McQuery not stopping Sandusky when he saw what was happening (how the hell do you walk away?), I have a problem with McQuery not going to the police, I have a problem with Paterno not going to police, I have a problem with the AD and the VP not going to police, and I have a problem with a prior case on Sandusky that they never decided to press charges on dating back to 1998 (which might explain why no one went to the police).

But I also have a problem with how the Paterno situation was handled. Paterno - who did not rape those children - is getting more heat and more publicity about this than Sandusky. It's not like Paterno is the criminal here - it's Sandusky. When you hear it talked about, it seems like a lot of people put Paterno's failure to report the crime on the same level as the crime itself.

I also have a problem with Paterno being the only guy on the coaching staff that was fired. When you look at the assistant coaches and coordinators, most of them have been there for 10 years or more. Chances are if Paterno knew, a bunch of others on that staff knew too, yet Paterno is the only one who gets the axe.

That said, the next people taking it up the ass are the AD and VP, who likely will be convicted of perjury. After that will come the civil cases - the victims are going to sue to balls off the coaching staff, the Penn State officials, and the University itself.

 

The thing is Paterno is the football coach only and had no authority over Sandusky at the time when it happened, as Sandusky was no longer a part of the football program. The AD and every other school offical above the AD did have the authority. I personally feel it started with the AD who allowed Sandusky to continue his program after the inital allegation. I went to PSU as a freshman, in State College(not College Station Snook! Blasphemer! ) Everyone on Campus has met Paterno if they wanted to. He is a very small, squeaky voiced, nice guy. Not a dominering type of football coach like you see portrayed on TV shows. Though at some Universities Football coaches are god who wield their powers liberally, Paterno isn't that type. He was not the authority figure of the school to communicate the issue to. It had nothing to do with the Football program. The AD let Sandusky use what is being called "The Football Facilities" but many orgs used it as well, not jsut the football team exclusively. The AD and the ADs higher-ups were.

I found this odd...McQueary called his father first, before contacting anyone else. Why? For advice on what to do? I don't see the father getting vilified in the media. But why not? He was the 2nd to know...

 

I also found this a bit enlightening (I imagine any ex-Penn Stater would agree):

Emily Kaplan, a Penn State junior, and a writer for the campus paper the Daily Collegian. Her report, filed Sunday night from State College, Pa.:

The origin of the iconic "We Are ... Penn State" chant, the school's signature slogan on and off the football field, is believed to have occurred the same year Jackie Robinson broke baseball's color barrier. In the pre-Paterno year of 1947, SMU didn't want to play Penn State because of PSU's two African-American players and wanted to negotiate a compromise. "We are Penn State," said captain Steve Suhey. "There will be no meetings."

So began the battle cry of unity, as all Penn Staters, to this day, consider ourselves part of a special family. Walk into a crowded room and shout, "We are ... " and any Penn Stater would know how to respond. The chant represents pride, respect and tradition.

Today, we are Penn State ... but we are ashamed. We are ashamed that our leaders who preach doing the right thing and "success with honor" dishonored all of us with their inaction over an alleged child-abuse scandal. We are embarrassed by the way we are being portrayed, as a football-centric school that would let a child molester walk if that meant our name would stay clean. We read the grand jury report and we are just as disgusted as anyone -- if not more. We are heartbroken that this could happen here.

But I can tell you this: We are not going to let an assistant football coach, apparently a very sick one, or a few university suits define us. For a moment, we lost our identity. We felt sorry for ourselves. We sulked that we were the victims of media scrutiny and that this scandal tarnished our school. But we are not the victims. The children are. So we will move on, working on repairing our school, while honoring those kids along the way.

Already the scandal's ramifications are swirling around campus. Four students apparently lost their spring internships because companies didn't want to be associated with Penn State. Corporate sponsors are supposedly pulling out of THON, Penn State's annual dance marathon, the largest student-run philanthropy in the world, which has raised more than $78 million for pediatric cancer. If all true, it's sad. But this I know: We are a school with a glorious tradition, a school dedicated to doing things the right way. Our longtime father figure, Joe Paterno, taught us that.

Look, I'm no Penn State apologist. I can't condone the stupid tantrum some of my classmates threw Wednesday night after Paterno's dismissal. Nobody condones the arrogant decisions some of our leaders made. I've also heard the criticism against my school. Happy Valley is in a bubble. Penn State is too image-conscious. JoePa is too deified. The riots give credence to that.

Truth is, if not for Paterno's philanthropy and moral code (until his fatal lapse of judgment), I and thousands of others wouldn't be here right now. If not for Paterno and his grand experiment -- creating a national powerhouse football program with high academic standards -- Pennsylvania State might still be an agriculture school and State College might be lucky if there were a Wal-Mart within a 30-mile radius. Paterno made a huge mistake, but that doesn't mean he's not a good man.

So we will study at Paterno Library, a place Joe and his wife made happen, we will eat Peachy Paterno ice cream and we will remember the lessons he taught us about integrity and honor. We will also remember his mistake, and make sure we never repeat it.

We will fund raise harder than ever for THON, we will work harder than ever in the classroom. Our president, our athletic director, our football coach, will not be around anymore. But we will be, and we will start to rebuild our university's shattered image. Because we are Penn State. And like the hundreds of thousands of alumni around the country, we always will be.

 

This is an infuriating issue for me - especially considering all the Paterno apologists I've had to deal with lately (I work on a college campus with a winning football team) - so I'll keep my brief.

A 10-year-old boy getting anally raped in a shower by a trusted authority figure is an unspeakable crime. Everyone who knew about it and didn't immediately take this knowledge to the police - not their superiors or dads, but the god damn police - needs to be thrown in jail. Anyone who continued to work with or even tolerate Sandusky knowing what they knew needs to be thrown in jail. Anyone who saw more boys year after year being signed up for Sandusky's outreach program and said nothing needs to be thrown in jail. And on and on. Nothing justifies the inaction of dozens of grown men who put their careers and the mythology of a college football program ahead of the welfare of kids whose lives and innocence were being destroyed by a sicko. This goes double for Joe Paterno, who as the exalted and lionized father-figure of Penn State, should have had the courage to do something - ANYTHING - when it would have made a difference. Anyone who defends these men needs to have the living hell slapped out of them.

 

DR, if this was the Facebook I would so Like you.

 

Thanks, guys.

 

Joe Paterno is definitely getting it worse than the rapist himself. My understanding of this case came exclusively from background noise of the family t.v downstairs, and I was under the impression that it was him that was doing it. I don't think I heard another name at all.

 

I assure you that simply isn't the case.

 

You see, this is exactly what I'm talking about. (And no, for the record I didn't go to Penn State, none of my immediately family members have ever gone to Penn State, and none of my closest friends have gone to Penn State. I grew up in Pennsylvania, about 90% of the people who attend Penn State are from Pennsylvania, and seeing as how they have an undergraduate student body of around 80,000 of course I know people who have attended, but I don't have a personal stake in this, nor any honor to defend.)

It is exactly the mentality expressed by DR that I don't get. Certainly Paterno, McQuery, the AD, VP, and all of those involved who knew and did nothing are worthy of our contempt. I think that's self-evident enough. What I don't get is why Paterno is being singled out as the pariah here. He wasn't raping those kids, and if you read the grand jury report, he was one of no fewer than a half dozen or so adults who had to have known what was going on. Not only have most of the other people got off without any criminal charges, most of them still have their jobs as well. The one I really can't get over is McQuery - he's the guy who witnessed the rape taking place, and was the only person able to put a stop to the crime as it was being committed, and he did nothing.

It sounds asinine to me that people think Paterno belongs in a jail cell next to Sandusky, as if their wrongdoings were comparable. While Paterno and many others failed miserably in their moral responsibility, they met their legal responsibility. The law in question that applies to all types of teachers (this law applies in colleges, high school, elementary schools, day cares, etc.) is that if you have reason to believe a child is being abused - even if it isn't being done on school grounds - you have to report it to your superiors (who would presumably take the case to the police).

The AD and VP of Penn State are also facing criminal charges, but it has nothing to do with the kids who got raped. They are facing perjury charges for lying to the grand jury. No one else is facing any criminal charges, and the police have already stated that Paterno, McQuery, and the rest of the coaching staff are not considered suspects for anything in their ongoing investigation.

So first and foremost at the top of the heap, miles beyond everyone else is Sandusky... you know, the actual rapist. His guilt exceeds that of everyone else by so much, I don't think Sandusky can see anyone else from where he's standing. Next in line is the AD and VP - the buck ultimately stopped with them. The others met their legal responsibilities by reporting the crime up the chain - they were the final authority figures who should have reported the crime to police, and they were the ones that continued to try to cover things up even when the legal system eventually got involved. Next in line is McQuery - the actual witness who could at least have stopped the rape as it was ongoing. Next is Paterno, as the face of the football program, someone who had the clout to have got something done if he wanted to. Last are the other members of the coaching staff who invariably knew what was going on. Not everyone was equally responsible, not by a long shot.

I also don't think we've heard all there is to hear about this - and I'm not talking about further civil action that is undoubtedly coming. Even in the criminal cases, more is going to come out on this. I, for one, am willing to give all involved their day in court (speaking both literally and metaphorically).

EDIT: Just saw this on ESPN - State College Police do not have jurisdiction on Penn State's campus, it's the specific campus police that would have to investigate. The head of the campus police department at the time? Gary Schultz, who also happened to be the school's VP. So by Paterno and/or McQuery reporting it to the AD and VP, they effectively did report it to the head of the police that would be responsible for the investigation.

 

It's not terribly surprising to me that the news story here is about Paterno. Celebrities (even quasi-celebrities like Paterno) make news, not regular people. At least regular people don't make news when celebrities are around. If you raped a ten year old and Brad Pitt was in the area, the headline would not be "SP Member Rapes 10 Year Old!," it would be "Brad Pitt Near As 10 Year Old Raped!" That's just the way it is. Rest assured the criminal justice system part of this will be squarely focused on Sandusky, however, as it should be.

Paterno may be getting a figurative black eye, but he's not going to jail. Sandusky is. Sandusky's getting it way, way worse in the big picture.

I don't particularly laud the university for anything here though. Their decision to fire Paterno was no doubt based on the perceived PR damages likely to be incurred by keeping him, not any sense of wrong or right. (I don't actually have any evidence for this, but my batsh*t radar is keenly tuned to phony diplomacy in the public realm. ) This in turn would explain the shotgun affect of the firings. I pretty much agree that anyone found to have had knowledge of Sandusky's actions should have been fired on purely moral grounds. Paterno's only one of them, but as the official mascot for the Penn State football monolith, he naturally catches more crap. Tough sh*t for him - he should have put an end to all this nonsense the moment he heard about Sandusky's crimes. Just think how people would have worshipped him for that.

 

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing against Paterno's firing. If anything, I'm arguing that Penn State didn't go far enough when it comes to cleaning house. For example, the new head coach was on the staff for the last 33 years. I think it is more likely than not that he knew what was going on all along as well. McQueary - who by all accounts is not a particularly good coach - also has been given numerous promotions since 2002. It sure looks like hush money now - keep your mouth shut and you'll be taken care of, which certainly would help explain why it took as long for this to come out as it did.

I just find it disturbing that Paterno is being portrayed as Public Enemy #2, right behind Sandusky himself, and there's plenty of blame to go around, with Paterno, IMO, not being the most responsible after Sandusky.

EDIT: I'm not condoning Paterno's silence or that of others. I'm just saying that if you want to be even-handed in how you deal with this, then you've got to clean house, and the punishment they receive should be commensurate with their involvement. How do you justify keeping McQueary, and firing Paterno? At the least the are equally culpable in covering things up.

If you fire the staff, the legal system and reality will take care of the rest. Sandusky is likely going to jail, and the AD and VP may as well. They are never going to get anyone of any renown to coach there in the foreseeable future, and good luck on the recruiting trail for years to come. (The top recruits usually receive scholarship offers from many schools, and there's no reason to think they would not go elsewhere with all this controversy surrounding the program.)