My Comeback Party; comments

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First time I've played this game in a few years, and nothing to do all weekend. Ready for a run-through, looking for some peanut-gallery comments. Latest version of Co8 installed, 7.5.0.

Here is the party I'm looking at:

Paladin 4/Fighter X (Human, Male) LG
Using 2-handed swords and Glaives. Party spokesman, frontliner.

Barbarian 2 / Fighter X (Half-orc, Male) CG
Two-weapons, eventually double Great Cleavers. Hurtin' stuff.

Cleric of Corellon Lerathean X (Elf, Female) CG
Domains: War (for Long Sword boost) and Good (for holy enchanting).

Druid X (Dwarf or Human, Male) TN
Ranged, offensive caster, backup tank. Done well with druids in the past. Produce Flame spell is useful throughout.

Rogue 1 / Wizard X (Elf, Male or Female) NG
Kablooey, and rogue skills. Will use a bow when not magicking. Enchanter.


If memory serves this should cover all the bases. Lots of good tanking and offensive spells, the right setup for covering all the enchanting bases.

I hate - HATE - NPCs in this game and their stupid looting behavior, so I won't be picking up any stragglers except briefly for quests.

I am tempted to switch out the Druid for a ranged Rogue and take advantage of the sneak attacks from a distance.

Anyway - comments?

 

Good, standard group. I'd keep the druid, the animal companion is a decent meatshield and you'll need something to bait ogres with. If I had to replace him I'd pick someone who could carry a shield and cast spells, or if you really want an archer I'd pick a rogue/martial class mix instead of a plain rogue. Sneak attacks are nice only when they work.

 

NPC looting is not an issue in the modern era with Co8, DR.

 

Noted. Even still, I prefer rollin' with a 5-made crew.

So after a late (LATE!) night, I am now in Nulb with this party. Overall it's been great, but man, C08 7.5 must have nerfed the Druid's Produce Flame spell, because it misses almost every time now. I used to consider it a viable combat option to just sit in the back and lob little fire nuggets. So far, the Druid is by far my weakest character, whereas in past playthroughs she was my MVP. Great stats, too. Primarily an archer this time, and since she's not optimized to be an effective archer, she sucks.

Wishing I had a sorcerer right about now. Or a halfling melee rogue. But I don't want to start over. Maybe I give her a level of fighter just so she's more viable at tanking. We'll see.

 

The only things we ever did to Produce Flame were cap the bonus damage and make it so it doesn't work in the Water Temple (per the module).

Produce Flame is a ranged touch attack, so the user should have the appropriate ranged feats to use it well - Point Blank Shot (+1 on attack and damage rolls) and Precise Shot (bypass standard -4 penalty for firing into melee).

 

Druids in ToTE should be using longspears imo. Good range, good damage, lots of tactical possibilities (easier charge attacks, single attack then 5-foot step back = attacks of opportunity spam, etc). In ToTE I prefer to play the Druid as a caster who specializes in persistent spell effects (buffs, entangle/spike growth, summons). I only take the strongest nukes and save them for the big fights.

With a longspear and a good animal companion your druid should be doing very well early game, you don't need fighter levels. Also note that in ToTE druids get penalized for using weapons/armor against their ethos. (so no metal shields/armor - apparently they'd rather wear the skins of their violently slain animal brothers over metal which is essentially just shaped rocks, bones of the earth mother and all that. But I digress)

I forgot what the penalties were, iirc they lost their druidic abilities and could not regain them until a few hours after you unequipped their gear.

 

This is my Icewind Dale 2 stock party, it would have to be adapted for TEE, but it is strong on mage magic and it enables open-ended acquisition of rogue skills:
Aasimar Paladin (Helm)
Human Cleric (Lathander)
Human Rogue/Ranger
Half - Elf Cleric (Selune)
Moon Elf Wizard
Wild Elf Sorceror

Rogue/Ranger alternates between taking levels as a Rogue and as a Ranger. He starts with 14+ Int so he gets the right number of skill points. You could have a Rogue/Barbarian instead, but the skills would suffer.

Here is one possible TEE line up:
Human Paladin
Human Cleric
Human Rogue/Ranger
Half - Elf Cleric
Elf Wizard
Elf Sorceror

Race is largely negotiable for each PC. Elves get useful bonus weapon feats, other races would have to take a level in fighter instead.
Rogue/Ranger could be replaced with an alternating Rogue/Barbarian. Race would be Human, Half-Elf, Halfling or Half-Orc.

 

Keep the Druid, they are useful in so many different ways, they are an excellent support character. You have all the other bases covered.

With theCo8 mod, I tried an 8-man team. 4 Warriors, 2 Healers, 2 Arcane Casters. You don't worry about NPCs AND you could put up a wall of High-Strength Pike/Spear wielders in your front row. Think Braveheart....

 

So, question: how do you create a party of more than 5 people with Co8 installed? Perhaps there's a readme out there that me didn't read, but that'd be great for my next go-through (I plan to do another run when I'm done with this one - Christmas break, baby). Then I would really rock an old-school BG-style party, and explore the spiked chain Rogue strategy I've read about.

 

That function is gotten to through a drop down menu within the front end - 'change number of PCs' or something like that (don't have it in front of me at the moment).

 

Rogue first v Ranger/Barbarian first, skill points at 1st level may be one way to make this decision. You start with 8 more points as a Rogue. Presumably you get more use of your initial points as a Rogue because you will be spending a lot of it on Rogue class skills like Disable Device.

 

Yeah, you'll definitely need to start over. Your characters might work but I wouldn't recommend trying to transfer them, mainly because Co8 enables some feats that were not active in vanilla to allow leveling up to 20. That could cause levelup problems down the line. Play it safe and have no regrets.

 

Ranger/Rogue (or Rogue/Ranger) question.

Which side are you guys emphasizing? The Rogue side for the sneak attack damage, or the Ranger side for the free two-weapon or archery feats?

If the latter - wouldn't it make more sense to make a Human and take your first two levels as Fighter, using those first 4 feats to spec them out? Just curious.

 

More skill points from the Ranger helps with your Thieving skills. Human is even better for skill points. Elf or Halfling is better for Dex bonus. I am not a fan of the Half-elf choice other than for RP.

I prefer to use this build for sniping, not melee.

 

At least three levels of rogue for Sneak Attack/Evasion, a bit higher (4-5) if you want Uncanny Dodge. Setting up ranged Sneak Attacks is tricky because you need to have an allied NPC/summoned minion flanking your target, so I'd take at least 4-5 levels of ranger/fighter/barbarian for consistency.

 

This is turning into a general Co8 questions thread as well. I like it!

So, Bard/Rogue builds. Recommended? And which side is more valuable, Bard (for spells and songs) or Rogue (for sneak damage)? Any sample builds or experience?

Next paragraph is semi-spoilery...avert thine eyes.

Did the C08 update ever mess with Scather at all? The reason I ask is that it's always referred to as a bastard sword, but I seem to remember that in fact it actually is a two-hander and takes the two-handed sword proficiency. I'm wondering if that was ever remedied either way. I just started a new party with a CG human fighter build, and I'm wondering if I should have even bothered with getting the exotic weapon: bastard sword feat.