nVidia and Radeon graphics card questions

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Shopping around for a new graphics card, and have a few questions.

1) I just picked up an ATI Radeon 9600 256mb AGP. Got it for a decent price (about $100), and I currently have an nVidia Ti4200 64mb. Is it enough of an improvement to be worth the cost? Is this a good card for games like Doom3?

2) What's the difference between ATI's regular, Pro, and XT series? What's cool about the "all-in-wonder" varieties?

3) What's the difference between nVidia's GeForce 6, FX, PCX series?

4) Any recommendations? I'm not spending more than $120, but I'd like something with a little more oomph in the next year when all the games based on the Doom3 and Half-Life 2 engines come out.

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Feel free to answer any or all questions. I'd like to hear multiple viewpoints here, so feel free to answer a question if someone already has.

 

I assume the 9600 256mb is the XT (Pro is only 128, I believe). According to both Tom's Hardware and AnandTech, this card is OK for Doom3, but obviously not ideal.

Pro vs XT - depends on what you're talking about, ie. 9600, 9700, 9800, X800. It could be differences in core speed, memory speed, pipelines, amount of memory, etc. In your case, I believe it's the clock speed and amount of memory.

All-in-wonder I believe lets you watch TV through your computer, but I've never really looked at this much.

I haven't really looked to much into nVidia specifics, so I can't help you there (I tend to lean towards ATI).

What recommendations are you looking for exactly? Since you already bought the 9600 XT, are you wondering about the next upgrade? Or are you having second thoughts?

Edit: I did some more checking, and it appears the 9600 comes with 128 and 256 versions of both the Pro and XT. Which one do you have?

 

Second thoughts. The 9600 I bought is defective, so I'm going back to the store regardless. I'm deciding whether or not to ask for a replacement or return it and get something better. As for it being XT, it doesn't say so on the box. It is a:

VisionTek ATI Radeon 9600
- 256mb DDR @400mhz
- 2d/3d graphics
- Full directX9
- VGA, DVI-I, TV Out
- 325 mhz VPU

I'm thinking of just waiting another 6 months or so when A) more games with cool new engines will be released, B) those games will drop in price to compete with each other, and C) newer graphics cards will flood the market to facilitate all the new games, and the older graphics cards will drop in price.

Just not sure what to do. This card, I'm told, is a sweet card for a sweet deal...I just want to be sure before soaking more dough into Brunhilda (my computer).

 

Then I believe it was a Pro. But again, if you're looking at games like Doom3 and HL2, it would probably barely be adequate (although D3 apparently looks good even at low resolutions).

Unless you're desperate, you should consider waiting. A 9700 Pro or 9800 Pro would be a much better choice, although a bit more expensive right now (just under $200). Even an X300 or X600 might be worth considering, but I haven't seen any tests yet (I'm not even sure if it's available yet).

 

Yeah - I think I'll wait then. I have plenty of other games I'm anticipating (KotoR2, etc) that will run just fine on my current card (which, by the way, has been MORE than worth it at $130 well over a year ago). I'll return it and wait it out.

If anything, I'd like a 9800 Pro, or something from nVidia. I've had more experience with nVidia, and from what I hear, they're better cards anyway.

 

I just checked again, and I don't think the card you bought was even a Pro; at 325mhz, it was either an SE or "plain" 9600. The Pro is 400, and the XT is 500. So I don't really think it was that great a deal.

Note, though, that with only 64mb on your 4200, it will be obsolete before much longer.

As to which company is better, it really depends on the game it's running. But dollar-for-dollar, you tend to get more bang for the buck with ATI.

 

Hell - my Ti4200 is obsolete already, but it still runs every game I own with pristine quality. I'll give a Radeon a try my next go. Maybe I'll pick something up during the Christmas blowout sales. I'm ok for now. I guess I got all ancy because of the great "sale" I saw, but I'm sure I can find something better later on.

Tron 2.0, NWN, Jedi Outcast, Jedi Acadamy, KotoR, Age of Mythology, Unreal Tournament 2003 and 2004...all run at highest quality with little or no slowdowns. I have a great system. I'll wait till making a giant leap forward is a little more affordable. I'm sure this Christmas will be full of great deals.

 

You have to be careful with the 9800's. There's a Sapphire (and possibly others) which are actually 9800SE's. The memory bus bandwidth is chopped in half, and the clock reduced. There was a big stink over it being "mis-labeled".

1. The 9600 (non-pro) has a tiny bit more power with the Directx9 games, than the Ti4200. It supports Pixel Shader 2.0, whereas the ti4200 supports 1.4. Yes, it's a good card for Doom3. Use the Ati "tweak" for Doom3, and you'll get a significant boost in framerates. Beyond3d has the information you need to tweak the game for the Radeon 9600.

2. Clock speed. The all-in-wonder are a capture card, as well.

3. ?? There's a 6800, 6800Ultra, and a 6800GT. The GT has DDR3 memory, and is a very significant boost over the regular. The Ultra is an upgraded 6800, and I think has been discontinued. The FX are the Geforce5's. Dunno where you got the PCX thing; maybe that PCI-E or something.

4. The 9800pro's and the 5900XT's are the best buy for the performance, right now, on our side of the Lake ($190 vs. $175). You're better off getting the 9800pro if you can swing it. It's a better buy than the 5900XT, but if you absolutely have to get Nvidia (Ati is completely incompatible with certain specific chipsets), the 5900XT is the best buy.

You're ok with the 9600, but it's not much of an upgrade. Honestly, you should have saved the money an bought a 9800pro as soon as you could afford it.

 

Good choice Death Rabbit, if you're happy with your card for the time being, it's better off to wait till Christmas and pick up one of those newfangled PCI-X cards. NVIDIA introduced a 6600 card that tears up Doom 3 and starts at around 250 bucks, and the price is bound to drop, as NVIDIA wants people to have two of them in SLI. Dunno what Ati's next project is.

Depending on whether you are an AMD man or an Intel man, there will also be some cool new chipsets coming out soon. VIA is introducing one that has a AGP and PCI x16 slot, while Intel just introduced its 915/925 chipsets, which support DDR2 Memory and have PCI-X.

Myself, I couldn't stick with my old GeForce 3, and blew my summer job money on an X800 Pro.

 

Heh. I just ordered a brand spankin' whole new system to replace my 4 year old one, and decided to go with an X800. For some stupid reason, I thought I was ordering a Pro (which is what I wanted); as it turns out, it was an XT.

Oh well, it's only money.

 

Splunge,

Wow, where did you get an XT? They are nigh-impossible to find. That's why I got the pro.

 

Actually, I went to a local company to build the system (it's not something I'd want to do myself). Apparently, system builders have acces to scarce parts that the average shmuck like you or I don't have.

 

Seeing as Doom 3 runs on all my comps 2 of which have Gforce 2's in them and has no framerate problems your Radeon should run it fine DR. and yes doom still has phenomanal graphics at low settings.

 

Eh...you sure it runs on Geforce 2 Los_Drizzt?

Because the minimum requirement for Doom III is a Geforce 3, 64 MB.

Your CPU and RAM must be insane. Ah well.

 

DR - I think it was a smart move to return the 9600XT. I had one in my machine about 8 months ago, an Asus 9600XT with vivo, and sent it back for a nVidia eVGA 5900XT. But back then the 9800 Pro was about 50.00 more than it is now. Plus the 5900XT came with a full version of Call of Duty, which is an awesome game, IMO. The pricing on the 5900XT made ATI drop the price on the 9800 Pro. The 9800 Pro is a good bit faster than the 5900XT in almost every game.

The thing is, I noticed a pretty significant degrading in the apperance of my BG/Icewind games with the 9600XT. The dungeons were not nearly rendered in the same quality with the 9600XT. At least in my machine, the nVidia has much better rendering for these games. I know other guys who have experienced the same thing with ATI cards. Why that is I can't say, because all my other games looked great with the ATI card. I figured it was a driver issue, but I'm not really sure. Nevertheless I've been really happy with the 5900XT, but I miss the vivo feature set.

Here are some benchmarks:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/doom3_pt3/page3.asp

[ August 22, 2004, 04:24: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]

 

It is important to remember that the Radeons can only render in 24bit color. It ends up being (effectively) 22bit color. There's one single vertex shader pathway that can only render in 24bit.

There is an obvious difference in contrast between the Nvidia and Ati. In some games, it actually makes it BETTER.

For example, the game Thief. Everyone who ever played through the whole game ended up cranking the gamma up just to get through the levels. With the Radeons, it's a bit easier to see.

Same thing with Doom3.

But with other games, like Icewind Dale and Temple of Elemental Evil and Baldur's Gate, the contrast is a bit missed. It's not utterly terrible, no matter if you're using a CRT or an LCD. But it is noticable if it's a game you're used to playing, and you suddenly switch.

The framerate difference between the 5900XT and the 9800 pro is around 50%, for most games. I'm not even remotely joking. Some games (which are heavily CPU dependent), it's only 30%. It also depends on the level of Nvidia "optimizations" you're using.

Also there's a tweak for the Ati's on Doom3. And it is a noticable tweak, without any discernable difference in image quality...