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Paris Attacks

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Beren, Nov 14, 2015.

  1. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member Member of the Week Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Whoa ....

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34814203

    France was already in a volatile situation as it is, what ... after the Ilan Halimi murder and the Charlie Hebdo attack?

    Now 160 dead in shootings and bombings in restaurants and a concert hall!?

    What can we expect in France and the rest of Europe now?
     
  2. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon Ich dien ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    That depends on who the assailants are. If they turn out to be french the situation in France might see much more police and soldiers in public places.
    However if they are not french and might have come to France due to the open borders of the "Schengen-Raum"/area then we might see bordercontrols in the whole EU again.
     
  3. Keneth Gems: 29/31
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    http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-34815972

    I honestly don't understand these people's "master plan". It's like they can't muster up more than a handful of brain cells between them. "Let's murder some people. That'll teach them..." :rolleyes:

    Religious extremism is ridiculous.
     
  4. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon Ich dien ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Suicide attacks are not meant to achieve the same thing as normal warfare and not every culture has the same values as others. Kamikaze attacks for example were simply unbelievable actions to the allies who would fight, but not throw away their lives for an off-chance to hit an enemy ship.

    Ideally it frightens the victims and divides them (the rightwing certainly will use the attacks to declare that they have always warned against that danger and only they know the right way to deal with it, while the left and the utopian part of society will continue to argue that we don´t need borders and should continue to let millions of refugees come to us without any check who is coming or any idea how to make sure how those many people could ever be integrated, the muslims will either congratulate them if they agree with those actions - or critizize them but still be suspected and usually by someone accused to secretly support it).

    If France would decide to withdraw from the forces that fight the IS e.g. in Syria the terrorists would have won.
    If France continues and expands it´s support - the terrorists can claim that they always knew that the frankish crusaders are after the blood of every muslim whom they protect and probably even gain some new stupid allies from that.

    Germany for example decided to, as a precaution, to confiscate the travelling passes ("Reisepass") from people who are german citizens who are in favour to fight for e.g. IS in Syria. The silly thing is that the current german law does not allow to take the normal papers/identity card/"Personalausweis" from someone with german citizenship before any crime has been commited. And using that those people are still able to travel to Syria through Turkey who accepts the latter document as sufficient. There was a discussion in german TV how to prevent those people to go to Syria to fight for the IS - and I wondered why we can´t simply let them go and never let them back in...
     
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    Who cares about leftists, extremist attacks always result in one thing and that's a renewed and strengthened aversion to the assailant. It only further alienates them and ensures that an understanding is next to impossible to reach. They're like a bunch of petulant children with no realistic long-term goals, if they even have any.
     
  6. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member Member of the Week Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    That was my point and concern from the outset. There was already plenty of anti-Islam sentiment in France as it was:

    http://www.barenakedislam.com/2012/...enefits-to-muslim-parasites-by-a-whopping-83/

    http://www.loonwatch.com/2015/05/aljazeera-french-mayor-wants-to-ban-islam/

    The only question mark now is just how far will France go now if public opinion crystallizes even harder against the Muslim population. A curtailing of civil liberties and benefits would hardly be surprising.

    But I know many French would love to see its Muslim population either expelled or wiped out, more so after this. France has a history of doing its own thing and not trucking it with the other Western democracies when it comes to international policy, but would it ever go that far? Who knows ...
     
  7. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon Ich dien ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    The funny thing is that it might help Assad. Before the french wanted to fight the IS but wanted Assad gone too as they practically made him responsible for creating the situation in which the IS could grow.

    The Paris attacks might be beneficial to Assad in that suddenly the french might come to the russian point of view that the IS needs to be gone - but that Assad is part of the solution to get them gone. Which is what Putin wanted.

    Cui bono? ;-)
     
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    It's too early to say what is going to happen. I think this has the potential to change thinking in the U.S., as well.

    American media is pointing out that earlier in the week, President Obama said ISIL was "contained." What that meant actually meant, at the time, was obscure. Now it sounds idiotic. Today the White House says there is no threat from ISIL in the U.S. I think the American people don't know what to believe and I think it is likely that there could be a growing movement here in the states to actually DO something beyond dropping bombs in Syria and Iraq.
     
  9. Keneth Gems: 29/31
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    Bigger bombs?
     
  10. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    It is always hard to tell what middle America is thinking but it tends to be conservative compared to the East and West Coasts. According to what a spokesperson for Obama said on one report "contained" mean the geographical area which clearly does not limit what ISIl is doing and is going to do. In my opinion we tend to be a bit naive.
     
  11. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    If Isil's goal was to cause division and dissension they have failed. For the moment we stand together. They are not true followers of the prophet Mohammad. They have perverted the religion. The attack on France was a big mistake because the French are strong. There will be a coalition, a partnership.

    Unfortunately destroying Isil will not end the that spawned it. An ideology cannot be destroyed by bombs or guns. That I believe will be our hardest battle.
     
  12. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member Member of the Week Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Nakia likes this.
  13. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    It is vital that we not become anti-Islamic both on a pragmatic level and on moral grounds. We must recognize that the Isil have reinterpreted Islam to fit their own agenda. If we wish the cooperation of the Muslim world we must respect their religious beliefs just as we wish our beliefs or non-beliefs to be respected.

    Hatred is a poison that destroys the one who hates. To condemn an evil act is just and right in my opinion to condemn millions because of the perversion of a few I believe to be an evil act in itself.
     
  14. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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  15. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member Member of the Week Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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  16. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Yes, I saw on TV a comment that Daesh and Al-Qaeda are in competition for recruits and funds. Looks to me that things could get pretty ugly. Our rhetoric from some of our Republican Presidential hopefuls and the behavior of other politicians and Governers isn't going to help any. Let me rephrase that. It helps the terrorists not our people or our country.
     
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