Party Advise

Remove all ads!

I am going to start a new game (yet again) and I'm not really sure who to take with me this time. I have come up with 2-3 possibles for each position and would be interested to know what you guys think .....

Tank - Khalid, Kagain, Minsc, Ajantis
Khalid - low str, avg dex, good hp
Kagain - low str, low dex, high hp
Minsc - high str, low dex, avg hp
Ajantis - avg str, low dex, good hp

Archer - Kivan, Coran
Kivan - good str, good dex, avg hp
Coran - low str, high dex, avg hp

Thief - Imoen, Safana, Coran
Imoen - good dex, good hp, can assign all skills
Safana - good dex, good hp, good skills
Coran - high dex, good hp, get late - poor traps
(some of the other thiefs have good stats, ut you get them far too late)

Priest - Viconia, Branwen, Jaheira
Viconia - low str, high dex, low hp, high wis
Branwen - avg str, good dex, avg hp, good wis
Jaheira - avg str, low dex, good hp, avg wis

Mage - Edwin, Xzar, Xan, Imoen (M/T)
Edwin - low dex, good hp, high int, extra spells
Xzar - good dex, low hp, good int, necromancer
Xan - good dex, low hp, good int, enchanter
Imoen - duals late in game
Garrick - low str, good dex, low hp, limited spells

My PC will be a Bard, Ranger or Thief. Haven't decided yet.

 

The party you take will be mainly dominated by what alignment you want to play. If you want to be evil, then that'll exclude some choices, likewise if you want to be good.

 

I agree with Takara - we need you to narrow down your choices a bit - you've probably listed more than half of all available NPCs! I will say this much though - despite his timid demeanor, Khalid is THE BEST fighter available. There are three things you look for in a fighter - strength, dexterity and constitution. There is an item that raises strength to 18/00, and an item that raises dexterity to 18, but no similar item for constitution. Based on this, the best combination of stats you can get with any of the fighter types is Khalid with the gauntlets of ogre strength. Minsc comes close with the gauntlets of dexterity. Ajantis looks good at first, but you can't get him exceptional strength and dexterity, and the same goes for Kagain (although his regenerative ability is nice).

 

It only mainly excludes them depending on reputation. If you are good, evil NPCs will still follow you as long as your reputation doesn't go above 18. When evil I think 3-4 is the break point for good NPCs. I like to think that good NPCs, will stay with you because you are still benefitting the greater good.

You are generally right though. Normally, you would take Kagain as your evil fighter, but I don't find him that brilliant. His strength is low and his dex is poor. Either one can be sorted by gauntletts, but not both. The only good thing is his hp which are awesome.

Ajantis does have prot. evil which is a great bonus and come in handy. Again you have to decide to increase str or dex.

I am tempted to take Khalid and Kivan as I have never finished the game with either of them before. I do like both their personalities as well, and this leaves you free to use the gauntletts of dex on someone else.

Coran is a sticking point. I really like him, but his thief skills are poor for traps as you get him so late. I could rush through and pick him up earlier, but it would make some of the battles harder.

Another view point is ... as an evil PC you hide your true intentions from your companions and what is more evil than using a good character as a meatshield.

Viconia interacts well with Kivan (and Xan), but I don't know about Khalid?

Hmmm.... this has got me thinking about an all Elf/Halfelf party.

 

If you are planning on using Coran as your primary or only thief, you're out of luck. It is virtually impossible to pick him up (even if you rush through) before he's about 4/4. By then, the damamge is already done. You have to decide betweeen traps and lock picking - he'll never be really good at both.

 

I think you're right there, so I might right him off as my only thief. He can be awesome with the gauntletts of ogre power (or potions) - when he backstabs then the enemy goes down.

I think the most crucial decision is about Imoen. If I keep her, do I keep her as a primary thief or dual-class her. Dual-classing her is the issue as who do I use as my main thief. Safana (I like her) or Montaron maybe?

I've got a slightly clearer picture as to my party now .....

PC - ? (good or neutral)
Tank - Khalid
Archer - Kivan
Thief - ?
Mage - ?
Priest - ?

 

Given this:

I think you've answered your own question. If you plan on having a pure mage in the party, then there is no reason to dual-class Imoen at all. One mage is more than sufficient for BG1. However, there is another option for you. You can dual Imoen and then still fit in Coran as well. It's a archer heavy party, you could have Khalid, Kivan, Coran, and Imoen (as mage). At this point, unless you plan on having an accident befall Jaheira (or trapping her in a building) if you take Khalid, you also take Jaheira. She works fine as a healer even though she's a druid, not a cleric. For your PC, I would recommend one of the following - a dwarven fighter-cleric, a half-elven ranger-cleric, or a elven fighter-thief.

Rule #1 - If you're unhappy about your options at thief - make your own!

Rule #2 - Almost any class that is multi-classed with thief makes things more fun - even a thief-cleric.

 

Some good points there. Thanks!

Jaheira is a good option for a Priest. I quite often take her, but never really use her properly (she can be a great tank) as I just seem to keep her back as a priest. So, with this in mind, Viconia or Branwen will probably be a better idea.

I was going to go with yet another Bard, but I might try something different this time. My choice of class is Bard, Thief or Ranger (as previously stated).

Part of the problem is personal hang-ups with certain classes/weapons/alignments.
1) I love Cleric/Rangers but I really hate using slings.
2) I love rangers, but there are too many of them as NPCs.
3) I like thieves, but always want to play evil thieves and can't seem to work with good/neutral thieves. TN is too boring, CN seems better for a bard. CG might work though - a rebellious scoundrel, but not truly evil. Do I want a straight thief, or...
4) F/T are the best combat thieves. But, if I have a CG F/T - I might just as well use Coran!
5) I always play as a bard, so a change might be good. If I don't have a bard, how will I effectively steal things and what about a backup mage?

You would think I should know all this by now, considering the amount of times I've played this game and have completed it. There are just so many options available - what a great game!!!

@Aldeth: How did you get on with your Cleric/Thief? Did the combination prove to work in the end?

 

It's still a work in progress, and think I'm going to lilke it, but I doubt the cleric/thief will supplant the fighter/thief as my favorite class.

The reason for this is the fighting ability. I recently started SoA. I went to the Copper Coronet and challenged the guy to a pit fight. I GOT OWNED. Not even a close fight - the guy whiped the floor with me. Now, as I advnace in levels this will work itself out - keep in mind that at my current level my PC has a THAC0 of a not-too-impressive 13. That will change.

As for your game, I see no reason to take (or play) a bard, as I see no reason to have a backup mage in BG1. In fact, when I play a bard or take along Garrick, he is usually THE mage in my party. We're talking low level characters here, and I prefer to have a bard using the Bow of Marksmanship when he isn't casting spells as opposed to a mage throwing rocks.

I agree with your assessment of there being too many NPC rangers to merit playing a straight ranger.

A ranger-cleric still has some merit, as Jaheira/Branwen/Viconia may not provide you with enough healing spells early on, unless you don't mind resting a lot.

With thief, there really isn't a point to a straight thief, especially if you have Imoen and Coran, who by themselves will take care of some of the thieving abilities.

Ah, but are forgetting the beauty of BG. How two classes that are exactly the same can be played in enitrely different ways. Coran would be your primary archer, but your PC F/T would be a quasi-tank. A melee, front-liner with a backstab out of this world. That is a MAJOR difference over Coran. Plus, look at this as a possibility - Coran comes already way buffed out on Stealth ability, so you give the Boots of Stealth and the Shadow Armor to your PC so most of your points can go to lock picking and trap finding. You stealth both of those guys and you could pull off simultaneous backstabs (I mean on two different enemies, although I suppose nothing stops you from backstabbing the same enemy - methinks I must try this later on) - very, very fun.

 

I am sold on a Thief of some sort. It's down to race - elf, halfelf or halfling. Halflings are the best thieves, Elves the best combat thieves and Halfelves are good roleplaying.

My party is getting closer to being decided upon...

PC - Thief or F/T (I see my PC as more of a bountyhunter)
Tank - Khalid
Archer - Kivan
Priest - Jaheira or Viconia
Mage - Imoen (dualled at T7/M8)
Other - Bard, Thief, Priest or Mage

Kivan will be party scout/archer early on. He has great stealth. Later on he will revert to fullplate and be more of a melee fighter when needed.

Imoen will be my main thief for traps/locks until she dual-classes. This means I can develop my stealth a bit more early on.

If I only have one priest then I am more inclined to go with Viccy or Branwen, as I love summon skeleton.

Choice for last position is debatable.
1) Extra priest - Jaheira
2) Backup mage - Garrick or proper mage
3) Extra backstabbing - Coran

Hmmm..... decisions, decisions!

 

I'd for with Jaheira simply because you can never have too many healing spells in BG1 and I find it's pretty easy to get by with just one mage.

 

Jaheira does fit with the story better and you do get her early on. Until Imoen dual-classes, I will have no mage so is it worth taking Garrick (to use wands and some spells) until she duals?

I usually get Viccy straight away, but if I take Garrick (or another mage), I should probably wait until later for Viccy.

Alternatively, do without any mage at all until Immy duals. This could cause some problems, but nothing too bad. There are some battles, where you need to attack a mage quickly and the best person for this is another mage with MM.

Wouldn't Garrick give some ranged support, plus limited mage spells and wands (i.e. Monster Summoning, Lightning, Fireball).

 

GoD = Gauntlets of Dexterity
GoOP = Gauntlets of Ogre Power
(THAC0 modifier from weapon specialization and stats)

Best Missile THAC0 without GoD
Coran +6
Shar-Teel +5
Khalid +4
Kivan +3
Kagain +3
Ajantis +1
Minsc +1

Best Missile THAC0 with GoD
Coran +6
Shar-Teel +5
Khalid +5
Kagain +5
Kivan +3
Ajantis +3
Minsc +3

Best Melee THAC0 without GoOP
Shar-Teel +5
Minsc +3
Kagain +3
Khalid +3
Ajantis +2
Kivan +2
Coran +1

Best Melee THAC0 with GoOP
Shar-Teel +6
Kagain +6
Khalid +6
Minsc +4
Ajantis +4
Kivan +4
Coran +4

Stats
Khalid: Str 15, Dex 16, Con 17
Coran: Str 14, Dex 20, Con 12
Kivan: Str 18/12, Dex 17, Con 14
Kagain: Str 16, Dex 12, Con 20
Shar-Teel: Str 18/58, Dex 17, Con 9

Khalid has one mediocre stat and that is taken care of by giving him the GoOP after which there is no better melee tank among all the NPC's. His Con is excellent and his Dex is very good too.
I strongly recommend Khalid. Leave Jaheira in a house.

Coran is the outstanding choice as archer and missile combat in BG1 is very, very strong, IMO on the verge of unbalanced. His Con is low, but since he is not used as a melee fighter this is of marginal concern.
I strongly recommend Coran.

Kivan has good stats but since he is a Ranger he can't get the weapon specialization to make him a good choice. He is not even close to Coran when it comes to archery.
Kivan is not a good archer! I don't recommend him.

Kagain is a fighter which is good, but both his Str and his Dex needs help and that can't be done.
Because of that Khalid is clearly better.
I don't recommend Kagain.

Shar-Teel is really good. She suffers from low Con, but she makes up for it with excellent Str and Dex, which means that you can save both the GoOP and the GoD for someone else!
I think Shar-Teel is a must have for an evil party.

Paladins and Rangers are much worse - due to limited weapon specialization - than fighters in this game and I see no reason to use them.

Clerics (and Druids) are useful, not for healing but for some of the other spells. Clerical healing is way overrated.

For a good party I would go with this 5-character party:
Protagonist: F/T (and dual Imoen to Mage) or F/M
Imoen
Khalid
Coran
Yeslick

[ June 16, 2004, 11:11: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]

 

About using Coran, if you want him right away, you should just download the All NPC's at the Beginning mod.

 

A fun alternative could be a party in which all members have some type of disorder:


- Charname (you have really weird dreams and your dad was the god of psychos)

- Minsc (and his miniature-sized giant space rodent!)

- Tiax (he's totally nuts)

- Viconia (suffers from cultural shock)

- Xan (cronic depression)

- Xzar (he could give Hannibal Lecter a run for his money)

 

@Jaguar: good idea, but I am going to try and role play this game and do things the character would do, therefore I won't find Coran until later.

@Earl Grey: Great list, thanks.

I totally agree with Khalid and he will be a definite party member.

Kivan is an Elf, so gets the extra point to-hit for bows and swords. This makes him slightly better than your chart initially shows. Plus, he needs no GoD or GoOP to help him. Plus, he is about the best scout in the game.

Coran is great though! He is probably the best NPC in BG1. Would he be best with the CLB+1 for extra damage or LBMS for extra to-hit?

Shar-teel is a good fighter, agreed, but she isn't a tank and would fulfill a Kivan type role. I have found though that by the time I usually pick her up, her proficiencis are all used up and only ** in lswords, sswords and missiles.

I agree about clerics healing spells. I do like both Cleric (Command,Skeletons) and Druid (Entange,Lightning) Spells, with Clerics being slightly more useful.

I have tried Yeslick in the past and never really got on with him. I think I will stick to a single-class Cleric, which is Viconia or Branwen.

Oh, you forgot about Jaheira in your list of fighters. She can be a great tank, but alas, I always intend to use her as such and always revert to using her as just a Druid. Maybe Faldorn would be useful. She has loads of spells available, plus can't she summon dire wolves?

What alignment would best suit an Elven Thief (Bounty Hunter)? Chaotic Good, True Neutral, Chaotic Neutral or Neutral Evil?

@Colthrun: Tiax has a great personality, but you get him really late, so his thief skills are poor and he's not a great cleric. I have never really given him a chance though as I am usually happy with my party by then.

 

I wouldn't go for Chaotic Neutral when creating a thief. IMO, a cunning thief plans things well before acting, only takes calculated risks, and never leaves things to chance. I'd go for True Neutral or Neutral Evil instead.

 

Sounds about right. I would have said TN was best for a thief, unless playing an assassin type character, but it just doesn't seem to suit an Elf. Although if he were a woodelf, he'd more than likely be neutral.

It's funny these hang-ups we get when playing games!!!

 

It happens to me all the time, that is why I have started BG so many times and have ended it so few. The characters that I create too quickly or on a whim, never last long, I get bored too soon. I like to role-play as much as possible, I guess.

 

You aren't making much of an effort to pick her up early if what you say is true. She's on the same screen as all the basilisks, which I believe is two maps east of Beregost. So you can certainly pick her up really early - just don't fight the basilisks yet. At the very least, a PC who is a fighter/paladin/ranger should be able to beat her, or even Khalid, Minsc, or Kaigan (especially if equipped with a potion of fire or something of the like).