SoA party planning advice (Monk + 3 NPCs) ...?

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Hi,

So I've decided to give BG2:SoA another chance. (I'm only interested in SoA for now, but since I'm going to play it using a combined SoA+ToB installation from GOG.com I post in this subforum.)

I already played through the beginning 1/3 of SoA not long after it came out (yes, it's been quite a few years ), but gave up after realizing I had made some serious mistakes (loosing important items, making enemies of both shadow thieves and vampires, loosing party members, wasted money,... ). I guess I was a little overwhelmed by the non-linear and complex nature of the plot, as well as the whole D&D system which was completely new to me.

Anyhow, now that I'm revisiting the D&D games and have successfully played through IWD2 twice this year, I thought I could tackle SoA again - for real this time.

I have also set my mind on making the protagonist a Monk (preferably Lawful Neutral).

But rather than just going in blindly, I thought I'd do some party planning this time, and I'd appreciate any help/advice...

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Here's what I came up with so far:

Melee fighter

• the protagonist (Human, Monk, Lawful Neutral)
• Is it totally necessary to have a second specialized melee fighter? Or is it enough if the cleric or druid or thief helps out the Monk when necessary?

Arcane caster

• Edwin (Human, Conjurer, Lawful Evil) seems to be the best one from looking at the stats, although I'd ideally prefer an Invoker (or even a Sorceror) over a Conjurer.

Divine caster

• Either Viconia (Drow Elf, Cleric, Neutral Evil),
  or Jaheira (Half-Elf, Fighter/Druid, True Neutral)
  seem to be a viable choice. I never cared much for druid shapeshifting, but I do remember loving Jaheira's insect plague. (It's one of the few details I still remember). Also, I read that in BG2 clerics do *not* get the Iron Skins spell while druids do, is that true? On the other hand, Viconia is probably a better healer, right?
  I also read many people recommending a Ranger/Cleric multiclass to get the best divine spell selection plus good AC and weapons abilities. Too bad there's not an NPC for that...

Missile fighter

• How important is it to have a dedicated archer or crossbowman in the party in SoA?

Thief

• I never cared much for traps or backstabbing (though maybe I should?), and scouting/stalking will already be mastered by the Monk, so the only "job" of the thief would be to detect and disarm traps.
  So, is it really necessary to have a thief at all? Can the party not simply evade traps (or survive their damage)?

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I'd really like to keep down the number of party members. From my experience with my two IWD2 playthroughs, I found that 6 is too many (too much character management overhead distracting from gameplay, too little gold and items to go 'round, too slow level-up) and 2 is too few (not enough diversity, fights become repetitive, side quests become unavailable).

So I'd like to aim for a 4-member party this time, but with enough diversity to make for a fun first-time (proper) playthrough.

With that in mind, does anyone have any tips/suggestions for my party planning effort?
Am I completely on the wrong track?

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In addition, some general questions:

• Are there any disadvantages to playing a neutral-aligned protagonist?
• Is it possible to have both evil and good aligned NPCs in the same party for the whole game?
• In general,which NPCs are fun and interesting to play with from a roleplaying perspective? Which are just annoying?
• Are there any mods that are recommended even for "first-time" playthroughs?

Thanks in advance for any help...

 

If this is your first time playing through past chapter 3, you will want Yoshimo as your Thief and Keldorn as a Tank. Add Aerie for Healing and Magic and you are all set.

 

Protagonist: Monk is awesome. I'll risk a slight spoiler here and say do not take the shortcut to the underdark from the asylum -- go on the boat. When you get to the underwater city, side with the king (I know he's a arrogant jerk, but so is the prince). You can kill all the shark men after you get the reward from the king (it's a special weapon for monks).

Melee Fighter: Monks are weak at first, another melee fighter is advisable. There are several excellent options -- Minsc, Keldorn, Valygar, Mazzy, and Korgan. Minsc, Valygar and Mazzy also provide good missile support. You may just want the extra fighter early on (play five until you leave for Spellhold).

Arcane Caster: Edwin seems to be the default for most people. Imoen is a good mage as well (have scrolls saved up when you rescue her). One problem is Imoen will have only ~1.25 million XP's when you rescue her -- you don't have to do all the side quests in chapter two. Saving some for chapter 6 will help make Imoen more useful. Nalia is also passable as a mage. The two multiclassed mages provide nice firepower as well. Imoen is also good with a short bow allowing her to snipe when she's not casting. Don't overlook the bard, he's extremely capable (but CN).

Divine Caster: I really like Viconia but Jaheira is a melee monster. I also like the power Aerie provides as a cleric/magic user. Anomen is also a melee monster and a very capable cleric -- you will affect his alignment in the game (you get to advise him at some point the direction will be pretty obvious but you'll either send to LG or CN). Viconia and Anomen miss out on Iron Skins/Stone Skins. The divine casters (Aerie, Jaheira, Viconia, and Anomen) provide additional dialog as romance options. In fact, having the women in the same party is quite fun as they start agruing over you (if you're male, Anomen is the only option for a female).

Missile Fighter: Not really necessary in SoA. The ability to use missiles is an advantage but the melee weapons are much more powerful.

Take a thief ... if fact, take Yoshimo. He's not critical to the game but really adds to the overall feel when you finally get to rescue Imoen. Once you have Imoen she can take over the thieving aspects.

In general, people tend to form parties based on the good/evil aspect. For four:

Good: You, Anomen, Aerie, Yoshimo/Imoen
Evil: You, Edwin, Viconia, Yoshimo/Imoen
Neutral: You, Jaheira, Haer'Dalis, Yoshimo/Imoen

It's certainly viable to use Jan in place of Yoshimo (but you'll lose out on a fun aspect of the game). You can also leave Imoen behind in Spellhold. Jan Jansen is good thief with excellent arcane skills.

If you want to add a fifth -- make it a fighter. Also, when doing quests in Chapter 2 and 6, have the appropriate npc with you (they will generally add to the quests and make it more interesting).

 

Yeah I really liked him in IWD2, so I hope he will kick just as much ass here...

Is it not possible to use Yoshimo for this?
He seems to have decent enough stats (17 STR, 18 DEX, 16 CON). And I read that he can be dualclassed into fighter, would that be a good idea in my case?

Which one is more fun/interesting to play with from a RP perspective?

OK, will do.
As for Imoen... can you give a rough estimate when I will get her back? As in, at what approximate percentage of total game time.

Is there any disadvantage to playing this party (with potentially Jaheira swapped in for Viconia) with a Lawful Neutral protagonist, and in general neutral-aligned role playing decisions?
I mean, Yoshimo is also Neutral and Imoen even NG.

To clarify, I'd be temporarily taking each of the NPC's who are not in my core party in the fifth slot one after the other, complete any quests they may have, and then dump them again, right?

Also, at the very beginning in the dungeon, do I need to take every NPC I can get, or should I start keeping it to 4 chars already?

 

I would not recommend dualling Yoshimo.

All the romance options make the game more interesting (all four are well written). For the women: Do you want the waif whose been badly abused and needs to feel whole again, the independant woman whose lost the love of her life and turns to you for support, or the fierce bad-ass whose been dealt a tough hand in life and takes it out on others? That said, Jaheira has the most dialog in the game and IMO the best side quests (some find her too bossy). As a side note, Minsc has the second most dialog and Edwin has the funniest side quest if you do it right (slight spoiler -- let him keep the book).

When you get Imoen back depends on how many of the side quests you do before going to rescue her. Between 30% and 70% of the game (yeah, there's a boatload of side quests).

Swap as you desire. It's a cool game and allows a lot of freedom. Just be warned there are a few of the npc's that don't like each other. You may actually want to play through for a while with each of the npcs and keep the ones you like the best (for whatever reason). Dump the ones you don't want -- some of the quests can last a long time and you may not get them all for some characters.

You can make it out of the beginning alone -- but it's really difficult. You can leave any of the npcs behind, but I find it more satisfying to rescue everyone (I like being the hero). The four characters is your self-imposed limit; I find the game much more fun with a full party (they talk, they bicker and sometimes fight -- plus many interject into conversations).

 

It is highly advised to have a specialized fighter, and a monk doesn't count as one. The Monk counts as more like an assassin character (get in, kill things, get out). He is powerful enough to handle most things by himself, but only in experienced hands.

Not by much. Viconia's main advantage over other clerics is her spell resistance and earlier access to powerful cleric spells. All other divine casters are more powerful in terms of melee combat.

...which gives experience in BG2. Lots of it.

That's not the case in BG2. There's more than enough xp, gold and items for 6 characters. Playing with only 4 members will guarantee that you'll max out a lot earlier though.

Compared to playing a good or evil one? None in particular.

Yes, although some of them will end up fighting each other. While a party that's half good NPCs and half evil NPCs is probably not going to work, parties like the "Order of the Stick" (ie, only 1 evil guy in a party of good/neutral aligned NPCs) ones should be fine as long as you try to get to Spellhold asap (party in-fighting ceases).

Purely subjective. I like Nalia and I sometimes find Jansen mildly annoying, for example. I also hate Anomen.

 

Then how should I develop him? Mainly as a trap-setter?

From "rescue" I take it that any NPCs left behind in the dungeon will be gone forever?

Well, then I better get experienced fast...

In IWD2, the monk in my 6-member party was also kind of weak at first, but over time became a decent tank thanks to AC bonus from both DEX and WIS, + items. The Cat's Grace spell (DEX bonus for the whole day) worked wonders.

Also, I would often send him into a group of tough melee enemies, then have my spellcasters simultaneously cast spells like Flame Strike or Acid Storm right on top of him. He would usually remain unaffected - either through his high magic resistance, or by succeeding his reflex saving throw - while the enemies would usually burn. (One of the Monk's special advantages in IWD2 was that if a spell would normally give half damage on a successful reflex save, he would get none at all.)

The Monk in my second (two-character) playthrough became an outright monster, trashing Golems like they were toys, and routinely Stunning, Quivering Palm'ing and Cleave'ing his enemies.

Does none of this apply to BG2?

Hm, that would suck... I guess when the time comes I'll make an exception to my "no cheats" resolution and remove that nonsensical XP cap.

Fair enough. The reason I asked, is that I vaguely remember an NPC annoying the hell out of me during my first try - I think it was Aerie.

 

If you are only going to play through SoA and not ToB, you will not max out with 4 characters, so no worries. BG2 Monks are not the same as IWD2 Monks, but are still decent tanks. Keep Yoshi as a Trap Setter, it is his best function.

 

NPC's left in the first dungeon find their own way out ... conversations are a bit different and the designers do a fairly good job of writing to give you a guilt trip for abandoning them.

This is the first time through ... don't limit yourself to 'only four', play in a way you'll enjoy the game. If that means taking five or six every now and then ... do it. Play with two or three for while if you want. Just keep in mind when you let a person out of your party they stop gaining experience until you pick them back up again. Also, if you dump a romantic partner it kills the romance.

This is not a 3rd edition game (or 3.5) and it does not play exectly like IWD2. Character development is different and relative power of the classes is also different. That said, the monk is a potent character once he hits ~14th level -- but one-on-one I think the barbarian or berserker can beat him (with the right weapons).

 

Only partially. In ToB for example you'll need unfeasibly high AC to be able to tank things reliably. In the end, defensive spells or really high HP & damage is more reliable. (ninja'd)

The thing about BG2 is that the PC can't die. Seeing as you always have a 5% chance of failing your saves (or getting hit by a well-timed crit) if by some bad luck you fail your save vs paralyze or hold then its game over. In IWD2 you can afford to send your monk in and not worry about the remotest chance that he'll die, you can just bring him back anyway.

She's a good character in paper. Yeah it depends, I know lots of people who either love/hate Aerie.

 

Sadly your IWD2 experience is not indicative of BG2 monks.

Your AC will never be the awesome shield it was in IWD2, you won't be boosting your Dex to Godlike levels. There just isn't any way for you to do it (except with special abilities available to the protagonist but which are removed later in the game), you don't get monk exclusive armours like in NWN so the only way to increase AC is with items available to everyone. This still gets you a pretty good AC but not awesome and further than that AC in BG2 isn't as good. The later you get the more you need until at some point near the end of SoA or in ToB AC ceases to be relevant. This is an area that the developers really just messed up IMO. Oh, Wisdom won't help your AC either here. Wisdom is dead weight for your monk :S

Saves, well saves are a bit more ... obtuse in BG2. Third edition saving throw mechanics were a big improvement, there are five or six types, they aren't affected by your statistics and it's near impossible to intuit which saves are used on what. That said, you have opportunities to improve your throws with items and a late game choice. Also, your monk saves against a fireball? He takes half damage. No evasion here. Sad.

Magic resistance you'll be pleased to know works for you. And you can get over 100% magic resistance. Yay some good news!

And your fists will do 1D20 damage!

But you cannot be hasted or improved hasted :S (But seriously, 1D20!)

 

But your monk will have magic resistance ... combined with a couple of items you won't need to worry about the fireball. And, yeah, four attacks per round at 1d20 (plus bonuses, which should be +11 or so).

 

I have lots of experience with monks and this is what I feel.

1) You are slightly weak at the start especially if you do not start with max strength with a tome from BG1 (I always start my BG2 characters as if they went through BG1 and thus they all start with +1 to all stats except for wisdom which is at +3 due to tomes). That 19 str helps a lot.

2) Your damage with that str should be good as will be your number of attacks. However there is one caveat in that whenever you forced to use a magic weapon that goes back to crap in a post patch world. Your stunning fists can save your bacon too.

3) Biggest downer is lack of haste. It sucks. Curse you 1st edition lore!

4) Oddly if you want you CAN use some armors. 2 examples are the robe of the aprenti (you will have to summon it in as far as I know) and Keldorn's Plate if you have the stats (such as the high cha which probably will require you to wear a ring).

5) Get something in that head slot ASAP. Preventing crits will help you a lot regardless of what it is you are wearing.

6) Your defenses start off alright but become exceptionally strong by the end. At higher levels (say 13+) you are probably among the best or the best in terms defense in your party. Your only weakness is relative lack of HP since you can only get up to a 2 from con.

7) I would go for another strong melee guy to compliment your monk. Monks are strong but until you have their tactics worked out for you it would be wise to have somebody to take the heat off of them. Mazzy can work well since you seem to want to use a missile warrior. Mazzy can shoot arrows until needed and then can charge to the front to relieve your monk who can then throw darts (or sling stones depending whether you prefer higher damage or more attacks).

For end game your party could look like this

1 monk
2 Jaheira (she is a TANK and also has lots of dialog)
3 Mazzy
4 Imoen

This party will be very strong against mooks and undefended enemies. Biggest problem is if you fight a mage and you cannot get the defenses down. Imoen is key you must make sure she has lots of breaches handy. If the mage has no special defenses this party can quickly kill them with focus fire (which is what you should do in general pick the dangerous target and kill it). If you want to go to 6 ccharacter parties I recommend Anomen+Nalia (better magic more healing and some front line melee) or Keldorn+aeri (has less spells but gets enough and Keldorn is a beast).

 

My two cents:

If you do take Jaheira, she is totally capable of tanking. So you have two. In fact with the spell iron skin, one could argue that Jaheira is one of the best tank NPCs in the game.

I realize you're already moving away from Edwin, but honestly, if you did want him, being a Conjuror is IMO, better than being an Invoker. Conjurors lose Divination spells, Invokers lose the enchantment school. If faced with what school I'd rather lose, it's an easy choice that I'll take the conjuror. That said, I agree with others - Imoen with no restrictions on her schools AND still benefiting from getting an extra spell per level AND being a fully functional trap remover and lock picker makes her an easy choice.

I'd go Jaheira all the way. The differences in healing spells isn't nearly enough for me to sacrifice all the great stuff the Jaheira can do that Viconia can't.

I'd say it isn't important at all, but I will agree that if you do want one that Mazzy is the one you want.

As stated by others, Imoen does this as well as being a capable mage. Covered.

None that spring immediately to mind. There aren't any monk-related items that I can think of that require you to be a certain alignment.

Yes, but there are some character conflicts that others have already alluded to. To my knowledge, the following pairs come to conflict: Minsc/Edwin, Keldorn/Viconia, Aerie/Korgan. But you don't have any of those planned, so no worries!

I really like Minsc. I think he's really funny, and has good interactions with Keldorn. I also like Korgan and Edwin. I don't dig Aerie or Cernd at all. Of course, this is a very subjective answer.

If you are taking Mazzy, I'd recommend ease of use mod. It allows unlimited arrow stacking, and given the rate at which Mazzy goes through arrows, being able to dump 1000 arrows into one inventory slot is useful. It also allows unlimited potion stacking, so you can place more than five in a group. They still weigh a pound each though, so it's not like you can carry around 1000 of those.

 

Needed spoilerish here.

I believe it takes a good main character to get Saravok or Viccy (one of the 2, don't know which off the top of my head) to turn away from evil in ToB if you want them to.

If you don't want either in your party then being neutral doesn't matter. I think you can talk one of them out of being evil as a neutral protagonist but not both.

I know you are just starting but you set your alignment (if you aren't evil) early on. So your choices here may affect one of the things you can do much later in ToB.


Also I'm unusual in that I don't stick with exactly the same party through the game-I often switch a character or two out for someone else for at least a little while.

In some parties I've had Keldorn and Viccy in the party but, due to the way I resolved Keldorn's personal quest, they never had time to get into a fight because he rejoined his family (taking a certain sword with him).


Minsc is the most fun character in the game IMO.


EDIT:

When I took Viccy into ToB I grabbed her relatively late in the SoA game to keep her lower level than the rest of my party on purpose (until after I did what I wanted to in ToB).

 

@all: Thanks you for your comments!

@YH, Aldeth:
Can Imoen really pick up all the necessary arcane casting for the whole party by herself?
Considering she's dual-classed and has INT<18... Isn't the difference in firepower between her and Edwin significant?

I'm currently looking at

• protagonist (Monk)
• Jaheira
• (Mazzy or Korgan and/or Edwin)
• Yoshimo

until I get Imoen back, at which point I guess I won't need Yoshimo (and possibly Edwin) anymore.

But I'll take T2Bruno's advice, and try different combinations in-game when it makes sense quest or roleplaying wise, so the above is only the general target.

Still, I think I could use some advice as to how to best proceed with that target in mind. I.e...

• I suppose I should try to get Imoen back sooner rather than later (and save some sidequests for her like T2Bruno suggested) to minimize her relative XP loss.
• I'd also prefer to avoid excessive backtracking / unnecessary back-and-forth between city districts.
• I wouldn't mind romancing Jaheira.

So, with that in mind, any low-spoiler advice as to what areas to visit / major sidequests to take in what order in that chapter?

Yes yes I know ideally I should just jump into it and figure it all out by myself, I'm just trying to make sure that I don't repeat the bad experience of my first attempt at this game...

I'm sure there'll still be enough plot to unfold all on my own in later chapters.

 

Too bad -- you're going to be going between areas a lot. In fact you want to, the second or third time you transit you end up running into a bunch of thugs killing a guy -- rescue him and help him. After you drop off the dude, you'll be approached by Xzar near the docks -- help him. These are critically important to your romance with Jaheira.

Another key quest is your stronghold (talk to Nalia in the Copper Coronet).

If you want Mazzy you'll need to talk to a young man in the promenade -- but if you have Minsc the kid will find you. Just follow that thread to the end.

Korgan is in the Copper Coronet although I thought his quest was boring.

The Copper Coronet itself is a cool little adventure as is the murder investigation at the bridge.

For Edwin you need to go to the Thieves Guild. Make sure to do his quest after you get him (and do let him keep the book).

The temple district has a good quest and you'll get to meet Keldorn.

 

In a typical 6-person party yep. All BG2 NPCs have some utility function that allows them to make up for each other's weaknesses. For Imoen it's the ability to use bows/swords as well as good (early game) score in lockpicking/trap disarming.
Ultimately you get something that is more than the sum of its parts.

For a smaller party though I think you should get Edwin, since the above won't apply very well.

 

You may want to pick up Mazzy early then-you may find yourself giving her better weapon proficiency slots than the game does.

 

Al long as it's an intended part of the game - no problem. I'm just wary of going back and forth aimlessly while in the background the timeline unfolds without me keeping up.

Btw, is there such a global timeline, or did I just imagine that?
I.e. does it actually matter how much time you spend doing optional subquests in that chapter?

If I remember correctly, I was getting harrassed by vampires (really hated those) more and more frequently towards the end. Was it a specific action that set that off, or does it happen automatically if you stay in that chapter too long?

Also, I think I went on some adventures away from the city, like cleaning out a castle, and a cave network inhabited by beholders, and a druid village - none of which led me to freeing Imoen, just to some gold and XP. Is it a good idea to do those early, or can they wait until Imoen is rescued? Or at least until the vampire problem is dealt with?