The Value of Hired Help

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I have to vent about something for a few minutes here guys....

I'm just into chapter 2 so far, but Im starting to get really annoyed with the henchmen I am able to hire. The way they fight/act doesn't seem to be too helpfull. They often do the wrong thing too late to be of any real help. For example I am playing as a paladin, usually armed with either a greatsword or a longsword and tower shield or the like..and I had Tomi with me and I was always trying to have *me* confront the enemy and have them focus thier attacks on me while tomi came in and struck from behind or thier sides. occasionaly this works exactly as planned...but then if a 2nd group of enemies is in sight, tomi will go darting off at them without me Grrr! I also like to get off a ranged attack or two, then switch weapons as Im running towards the enemy, but I cant do this with tommi or else he'll keep running and get in front of me and HE will be the ones the enemies are fighting...most recently I had that bard chick with me..I tell her to use her hand to melee weapons but all she does is sit back and cast spells and sings her songs (mostly ones to boost her own stats even though she never sees any action )

*sigh* I suppose having thm around is better then nothing but just barely from what Ive seen so far lol.

Dave

 

Ah yes, one of the problems with the original NWN campaign is that the henchmen are pretty thick. This is one good reason to play a spellcaster as your PC and have a thug like Daelen or Grimgnaw as you henchman because a tank doesn’t really need much in the way of tactics (i.e. they can just charge into battle while handle the more intellectual business of choosing spells).

It is very frustrating to have to continually retrieve your useless henchman from the temple every time they die, so I often try and carry on as long as I can without them after they die.

This situation is improved in Shadows of Undrentide and Hordes of the Underdark where the henchmen seem to be a bit more intelligent and you also have more options for telling the what to do (like asking them to buff you BEFORE you head into a fight).

 

Tomi isnt too bad, actually. If he runs off to attack someone, you just have to get in the habit of using to radial menu to command him to follow you, which will recall him. Then, when you engage an enemy of your own volition, command him to "guard me" and he'll attack whoever is attacking you. Its a pain in the arse, I know, but its more managable than using Sharwyn or Boddyknock (especially as I play on core rule settings and they put me to sleep all the bloody time).

Incidentally, I find Linu's AI to be the best of the bunch. She does tend to run off and attack faraway enemies at times, but at least when she has the spells to do so she buffs, heals and then fights. I find her to be a wonderful support character who complements my Fighter 2/Bard X/Weapon Master Y just nicely.

 

Hmm, I don't agree with you, HB. The problem with having a tank npc, is that they should be the first to engage the enemy. But since they follow you around, they usually don't get in front of you before the enemy reaches you or has locked in on you, especially annoying when they have ranged weapons.

The option that is dearly missing in nwn is some kind of formation. D&D is made to make some kind of formation while fighting, tanks in front, heavy artillery in the back and medics/backup inbetween. That strategic aspect is totally lost in nwn, which is a shame.

 

Meatdog: I agree thats annoying, but theres a way to work around that too. Take a missile weapon. Doesnt matter what, just the best one your character can use. Proceed slowly, and as soon as you see an enemy in the distance, stop. Select a melee enemy if possible and shoot at it. Your tank will then rush into combat and, if you have commanded him to guard you, splat whoever is attacking you. If missile fire comes your way, run back a few feet as you should be pretty much at the limits of melee range. Another benefit is that your tank will most likely attack to enemy you initially shot at as they will be the first to fight back. If you use this technique in a narrow corridor or walkway, the tank will run past other enemies as the come towards you, taking some of them down with attacks of opportunity.

Again, its not ideal, but it makes the henchmen much more useful.

 

I hope so harbour boy, I bought the diamond edition so I got the two expansions as well, just havnt gotten that far yet lol and ditto to nwn needs a formation system. Im afraid of ever playing as a spellcaster because I know it'll be so much of a pain to keep my hired tank fighter in between me and the enemy thats a good idea..to use a ranged weapon at first, also, since *usually* I spot the enemy way before they spot me, I can hit the "attack nearest" command before they see us and follow dealan or whoever as they run at the enemy... oh and will, actually I like the way linu acts/fights too, but since Im a paladin, I dont use her much since I also have turn undead and healing and divine spells...better usually to get a variety of skills at my disposal...

I havnt tried hiring the sorcerer yet...is he any help?

 

Only if you go racing in ahead of them.

Whenever I play with even the dumbest NPC tanks, they always charge into battle and engage the enemy long before I do. Sometimes this is annoying - if I want to cast a fireball first - but I have certainly never had a problem with them NOT engaging the enemy first.

I don't see what the point of a formation system is when you only have 2 people in a party. How many ways are there to arrange 2 people?

 

Wouldnt bother. He casts sleep all the time which seems to work better on me than on the damn monsters. Thank the Lord goblins dont coup de grace. Never taken him beyond the first chapter as I really dont want to see what happens to me when he starts throwing fireballs around. When he runs out of spells he seems to come to the conclusion that he is, in fact, Grimgnaw and proceeds to get eaten by the nearest dire spider. Definitely not worth it. If you want arcane spellcasting, do it yourself.

His quest item, however, is one of the best. Its worth picking Boddyknock up each chapter after your first few level ups, going through his dialogue and getting the latest version of the Lantanese ring.

 

Exactly. The AI in the OC is just not advanced enough to handle effective spell casting decision making (which is actually so complicated that even I can't work out how to do it properly half the time). Although Deekin seems to be an OK spell caster in HotU.

 

Deekin has it easy. Almost all of his spells are for buffing himself up.

NPC spellcasters are useless on the whole (except if they can heal you).

I mean, they use negative energy spells on undead.

 

Qoute:
"Only if you go racing in ahead of them.

Whenever I play with even the dumbest NPC tanks, they always charge into battle and engage the enemy long before I do. Sometimes this is annoying - if I want to cast a fireball first - but I have certainly never had a problem with them NOT engaging the enemy first.

I don't see what the point of a formation system is when you only have 2 people in a party. How many ways are there to arrange 2 people? "


Hm, usually thats true the henchmen runs right at any enemies he/she sees the second they do so, but a few things about that

1) That's ONLY true with the two tank type fighters in the game. the bard and cleric (who I dont use much this game since Im a paladin, but might if I was a wizard or such) will NOT always just run at the enemy..EVEN if you tell them to attack or guard you! sometimes they cast spells/sing songs...from BEHIND you.

2)even with the tank type fighters there are a few times that they don't engage first right away, especially if we are coming around a corner (and I am always in front because there is no way to order the henchman to lead) and if I were a wizard or sorcerer it would only take one time prolly lol

And as for the formations, true maybe not a formation system like in baldurs gate or icewind dale...but they could have maybe added an option in the "change tactics" diaolog with the hench men where you can opt for your hench men to lead you whever you click somewhere to move to, or to follow you or to stay by your side..etc...

I know theres ways around these things, it just gets really annoying at times, and Im sure even more so if I were a spellcaster type character.

 

OC is wonderful, I don't know why, but Sharwyn seems to think her bow is a melee weapon...

I often get to the point where I just wait until she plays her bard song and then tell her to stand her ground and do everything myself. The lack of natural armor amulets or rings of protection really hurts her in the OC, literally. She, thankfully, gets alot better in HotU and makes one great archer.

I've never had any problems with Grimnaw though, his AC gets so high so fast and he's faster then my character which assures he gets infront of me long before the enemies get on top of me.

I haven't played enough with Daelen to know how he is in the OC, his very high strength is nice in HotU, but his 14 con gets him killed alot.

Boddyknock is absolutely worthless, hell half the time he wouldn't even get his spells off before the hostile NPC was dead or he would use up all his spells on very easy monsters like orcs/goblins/zombies.

With Xanos I had to play through on normal, his liberal use of fireball made it so he was actually dealing more damage to my PC then the hostiles where.

Dorna I liked as a henchman, save when she kept trying to turn whoever the hell the mummy boss on the interlude was. Please Dorna, do not try to turn undead that have an overpowering or impossible change rating.

Tomi was great in the early stages of the OC where his studded leather didn't hamper him so much, but by the end, he should have been in padded, his AC really becomes a weakness by the end of the game. Never played with in HotU.

Never played with Lu

Never played with Deekin in SoU, but he's good in HotU as an auxiliary/support character, his use is rather specialized (because he's so very weak) until his 10 level of RDD.

Valen is hands down the greatest joinable NPC to grace NWN, this guy can take care of himself and make the opposition pay (I love those crits of his that do over 70 points of damage).

Correction, Lavoera is the greatest joinable NPC to grace NWN, but she only stays with you for a very short. How I wish she could have stayed (and been romancible)

N isn't that great of an NPC either, but she is rather useful in chapter 2 because of her rapier's bonuses against undead (she killed the Maker for me and pretty well steam rolled the undead cult) but doesn't really have alot of point if you aren't bringing her along for the romance against that which is not undead (or golem if you give her the short sword in the Maker's Lair). She doesn't have any open lock or disarm traps (while Sharwyn has open lock as a cross class skill and Valen has disarm trap as a cross class skill) and behaves too much like a fighter without the hp.

All in all, if you're not taking Grimnaw or Valen as a henchie, you're probably better off without a henchman.


How could I forget the Lady Aribeth. She's a block work of hp (far more then she can legally have) and works well because he doesn't like to die because of all those hp.