The *WORST* Bug in the Baldur's Gate Series

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ARRRGGHH!!!

I was hoping that this kind of thing wouldn't happen in Baldur's Gate II, but it just did a while ago and its driving me mad with frustration!

This type of "bug" is sOOO *SEVERE* that it essentially renders the game either unenjoyable or at its worst, unplayable, as it so occured in Baldur's Gate I!!! Apologies for the obnoxious tone, but I am getting tired of these *BUGS* jeopardizing the fun of such a great game. it is time to resolve this problem once and for all.

Let me begin with the seed, or the trigger that has led me to this outburst:

It starts with me entering the Sea's Bounty Tavern in the Dock's District; along comes some deviant who decides to curse Jaheira for doing him wrong in the past. Not wanting to deal with this kind of *quest* (to find a cure to Jaheira's curse), because of something similar in BG1 that downright screwed me over, I decided to take advantage of this *forseen event* (will talk more on this as it relates to the BUG of BG), and reloaded the game and entered the tavern without Jaheira and lets just say I went apesh*t on that deviant and his henchmen, thereby saving me the chore of having to help Jaheira. Little did I know this started off a chain of events that would later prevent me from EVER using Jan AGAIN!

MANY MANY Days later...

I finally finish up the Underdark and escape back to the surface. Everything is going well, the NPC's in my group were as follows: Keldorn, Korgan, Viconia, Jan, and Edwin (all leveling up just fine). The reason I had Jan instead of Yoshimo was because I accidentally read somewhere that he would ditch my group in the Underdark so I never brought him along. Anyways, as I return back to Athkatla, I am waylaid by Drizzt followed by a gnome fellow that sets off the Jan Sympathy Quest, you know, where each NPC you meet, you need to do something for them to stay in your group. I never took these seriously until Minsc deserted my group back in BG1, so I wasn't goign to risk it this time.

After agreeing to help Jan, I finally end up talking to the "Hidden" guy in the Copper Coronet Sewers, who demands that I go to the Sea's Bounty... uUUGGGHH, everyone in there is either dead or hostile!!!! So I go there and there is nobody to talk to. I go back, he still is waiting, the quest is not updated, I kill him, no quest update! When I talked to Jan, he has nothing to say. The quest is stuck in limbo, normally I wouldn't care, but now I can't even get back my group thief back!!!

Already mad with frustration, I decide at least I can always go back to Yoshimo, hes a great thief and his traps helped ease the demise of Kangaxx. Confident that I had saved myself an NPC by not bringing him to the Underdark, I am instead surprised with buggy disaster. Yoshimo Drops DEAD when I come to visit him! I didn't even get to talk to him, he just dies without cause! What a cruel prank.

What am I left with, Nalia? NOOO!!!

This is just one example in many that demonstrates how being able to forsee an event and manipulating it to your liking can be so very catastrophic!! The complexity of the game makes it near impossible to fix every decision the player makes, that is why I think any quest related contacts should just resist harm and remain neutral.

There are too many holes, like when I decided to attack Aran (guildmaster of shadow thieves), after completing all his requests, and also after declining help from Bodhi's Guild, just for fun. There still should have been an alternative to getting to Spellhold, but instead a Super Assassin appears and can instantly stab and kill with one hit, all my party members, even if they are 30' away from him. I just hope that if they come out with another patch, that they tighten up the freedom to do evil and make sure every NPC that is related to a quest, cannot be attacked, and will not react negatively to attacks. Instead pop up a little message above their heads that says: "You cannot harm him." or something. It's just too easy to accidentally break the game flow, I appreciate the immense detail going into this game, but with that detail comes the problem of not being able to cover all the bases. What do you guys think?

Kangaxx JR

** Optional Reading Begins here **

If you want to know about my Baldur's Gate I story, please keep reading...


What caused me to stop playing Baldur's Gate entirely was not because I got bored, but because of these "tinkering with the chain of events" and "impossibility of covering all the bases" that brought my advancement to a complete stop. Everything was going fine until I reached the City of Baldur's Gate; I entered an area where some thug told me to watch my back. Not knowing how important he was to the plot, and being the hot-tempered fool that I was, , I had to reload and KILL him before he could leave the scene (THESE are the most vulnerable spots in the game, the space between dialog and exit should not give players the freedom to do something). And I finally did manage to get the punk, but apparently he also was the carrier of half the anti-poison needed for the silent poison that was secretly killing my entire group (part of a quest, not actually poisoned and losing hp). Again, confident that I knew where to get the cure, from his gibbed carcass, the antidote stacked instead of merging, so I had two of the same, regular antidote! THIS WAS NOT supposed to HAPPEN! Perhaps some dialog that was needed between him and I to trigger the quest forward and turn the antidote into what it should have. Whatever the case, I was unable to cure my party and thus unable to advance. End Game. Because I had no idea I was poisoned the WHOLE time, my entire time spent at the City was a complete waste as the murder of that deviant occured in the beginning, it was too late when that poisoning happened to be the last quest on the chapter roster to advance to the next chapter, Wah! Would you really look forward to redoing almost a few days worth of gaming?

The WORST BUG in the Baldur's Gate Series!!!

 

I hate bugs!!

 

BG-2 is full of bugs

Hmm, the worst certainly is to be able to backstabb with *QUARTERSTAFFS* AND *CLUBS*

 

While I agree that there are a lot of annoying bugs and inconsitencies (backstabbing with a mace, or anything else), I'm not sure I would call that a bug.

You killed everyone necessary to advance the quest! Of course your stuck. Makes perfect sense to me that you can't get Jan back -- you killed the only people that can help him. Why would he want to be back in your group? And, in terms of role-playing, it wouldn't make sense to have 'untouchable' or 'unhurtable' npcs in the game just to advance quests -- if you kill them, that's too bad. End quest. Sorry, but maybe your PC needs to own up to the consequences of his actions.

 

KangaxxJr,

(Yoshimo spoiler and explanation)>>>
The whole thing where Yoshimo fell to the floor when you entered the copper coronet after the underdark in chapter 6 is supposed to happen. Like you said, you read that Yosh betrays you, he does because your our good friend Jon Irenicus put a geas on him. If he fails in his mission to bring you to him, then he dies. Well obvioulsy he failed, so obviously he dies Gnolyn Lochbreaker is right, the whole everyone's dead in the Sea's Bounty is not a bug either, you did that yourself pal

[This message has been edited by Big B (edited September 21, 2001).]

 

Yeah, what Gnolyn said. I hate bugs too, but none of the things you mentioned are bugs. If you go around killing all the NPCs in the game, you won't be able to complete quests! How hard is that to figure out?

Maybe next time you play a CRPG you should try not randomly attacking non-hostile NPCs.

As for Yoshimo, he dies because of his (failed) geas to betray and kill you, of course. You can't avoid his death just by dropping him off in the Copper Coronet before going to Spellhold. That's not a bug either.

 

If anyone has played Thief before, they should know that back-stabbing with a club isn't so ridiculous. In Thief, you had to disable your enemies by Black-jacking them with a wooden club.
I don't see what's so different in BG2 where a thief would probably aim for the nerves and pressure points of a victim and strikes him/her there with a club, dealing great damage.
Of course, back-stabbing with a quarterstaff really seems strange....

 

While frustrating, none of the things you mentioned are bugs, KangaxxJR.

And I guess that I was lucky, since I didn't find a single bug in the entire game...

 

This is the weirdest story I have ever heard... Why not spend half an hour removing Jaheira's curse? It's not that hard after all, and experience points are needed so badly in the beginning... You just caused yourself a problem.
And, by the way, Yoshimo's betrayal could bring you LOTS of experience points, sweetheart... he betrays you in the Spellhold (making room for Imoen, if you decide to take her), and when you are done with Jon at that point, you have to kill Yoshimo and bring his heart to the temple of Ilmater (and say some nice things about the deceased to the priest).

 

Nothing you described is a bug. You can still finish the game. It did not crash.

Maybe you should just play Doom or Quake (or whatever). If all you want to do is go around killing everyone without consequences, you are playing the wrong game.

 

The yoshimo-drops-dead thing is correct. It is a logical consequence of the plot.

And the second worst bug of all, I forgot to mention it, is: Halflings are not allowed to choose to be paladins let me state: in fact they can

Shura, maybe this gives an explanation on my opinions about backstabbing with clubs http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/Forum2/HTML/003687.html

 

That's not actually a bug either, Ragusa. Narrow-mindedness, yes, but not a bug. (-:

As for KangaxxJr, I don't see why the game should have to save you from your own stupidity by preventing you from killing any non-hostile NPCs because you might need them later. Geez, if that happened, then when you tried to kill Ployer (the Jaheira-curser) you would have got a message "no you can't kill him". So you'd be back where you started. Why should the game prevent you from killing everyone in sight? Either do it and deal with the fact that you then won't be able to solve all quests/have all NPCs in your party, or restrain yourself.

 

Aye, I see people be putting words in me mouth, hence the chain of dissing against me. Thank you though people for responding.

First, I admit wrong to calling this a *bug*, I thought it was a good way to get peoples' attention. I'd prefer to call it Blind-Blunder-of-OVERKILL!

To dispell this notion that I am this mindless, blood-thirsty "quake-turned-rpg-player", I will have you know that I never laid an Axe or spell on any of the townsfolk other than the ones in the Sea's Bounty Tavern, but that was because when my attack concentrated solely on the deviants, which does not trigger hostility from guards, but there happened to be some Town Guards in the room, but the civilians reacted with hostility, and the guards apparently attack anyone marked as hostile (extra info just for you tjekanefir because you are special). In fact, that dork at the piano is still sitting there with a hostile marker! lol whose narrow-minded now?

See NOW THAT IS A BUG, guards killing commoners on their own accord! Since it did not affect my reputation WHATSOVER, I thought nothing of it and continued on. No one else other than street thugs and that stupid kid at the Docks that always goes "Tee-Hee." was slaughtered.

However, this little mishap came back to haunt me later, not only was I not responsible for any of the civilian deaths, how was I suppose to know that the stupid bartend would in some magical way be connected to the salvation of Jan's ex-lover!

There are too many holes in the game, these are bugs that result in lame-sh*t consequences.

Whats up with RPG players hating FPS players?

SMACK!

Kangaxx JR

Here's another bug, never having brought Yoshimo to the Docks District until after I completed all the quests related to Renal Bloodscalp, I stumbled upon a Quest Book bug. If you don't like it being called a bug, call it something else to make yourself happy. Upon entering the Docks District, Yoshimo announces that we should talk to Renal Bloodscalp for his safety. When I talk to Renal, he has nothing to say to me, the Quest is never updated/erased. Again, another scenario that was not taken into account.

[This message has been edited by KangaxxJR (edited September 21, 2001).]

 

As the person who made the Quake comment I ask you, who is putting words in the mouths of others?

I never stated a hatred of FPS games/players. My comment was about your playing style. If you want to play games where indiscriminate killing is the goal, then many FPS games provide that.

Personally, I don't play any games with firearms in them. My brother (and best friend) was shot and killed last year by a man on a shooting spree. I arrived (not knowing what had happened) at his house 30 minutes after the attack to find the police there and my brother dead in the middle of the street. Since then, I have not been able to even watch a tv show with gunplay in it.

Lastly, I don't know what "SMACK!" means, but if you are implying that you would like to strike me, I assure you that it is a mistake. If you were standing directly in front of me, your tone would be quite different.

[This message has been edited by Jack Funk (edited September 21, 2001).]

 

I've noticed that the quest update mechanism doesn't work quite perfectly. I spent a lot of SOA walking around agreeing to help just about anyone that needed help. My quest book got pretty packed and then I paid the money to renal Bloodscalp and now I had a bunch of open quests in Chapters 1 (the dryad acorn quest), Chapter 2,and was accumulating them in Chapter 3. I think I finished the game and completed all quests (it takes a while and you need the aid of a walkthrough because the next step in the quest is so-not-obvious), but I still had quite a few quests (especially the ones started in chapter 2) that still inidacted that they were unresolved.

 

Arek, the dryad acorn quest is one of the simplest in the game, what are you talking about????? have you ever been to Windspear Hills? seems like you just walk past too many things
I finished the game once, and the only thing incompleted was the book of Kasa...

 

I agree with KangaxxJR on this one. Call it a bug, hole, whatever perspective you see it from, it sucks that a game that you may have spent a long long time playing may suddenly be ruined because of one silly little mistake.

I had spent many weeks on BG1 (gaining experience, acquiring nice weapons and lots of cash while enjoying the sub quests..). When I reached Baldur's gate and was threatened by the thugs in the alley I simply ignored it and went on my way. I also met the NPC at the fair who claimed to have poisoned my party, but I dismissed it.. and finished some more quests around BG.

Luck has it that my autosave and backup saves happened after this encounter, and are either in Nashke, Cloakwood, or some other out of the way place where I returned to finish some quests. On all saves I have hardly any time to live before my party 'explodes' with whatever disease they have. Even though the original save happened some time before, it still doesn't allow me enough time to get back to BG and complete the quest for a cure. Great huh? Game ruined... a month or two of play for nowt.

If this disease diminished party energy, or picked off party members one at a time.. so that you could make your way back to complete the cure quest while healing yourself, it would be a little more forgiving and much more rewarding in the end. But instead, as a result, I ignored the game for months afterwards, because I didn't feel like going through the whole game again, trying to remember and complete all the quests I had done previously.

I'm not the only person who's ran into this problem. Out of the 7 bg players I chat to on IRC, 5 have hit exactly the same problem and had to start again.

Having the player spend months at the game only for it to be a complete waste of time is a little unfair.. not to mention pointless.. don't you think?

 

This really doesn't belong in this forum since you're talking about BG1, but that guy who first tells you about the poison says *very* plainly that you only have so many days to live. He's blunt. Usually when something like that happens in a CRPG you act on it. If not, well, you die. Sorry, you lost. If you don't have a save or even an autosave that gives you time to go back, well, sorry about that.

But to expect the creators of the game to have to compensate for every single action you may take that just might end up with you losing the game (effectively) is ridiculous. I mean, that NPC was already blunt enough. You ignored him. That's that. I mean, come on. Why should the game have fail-safes installed if you make the wrong choice? There's a save option, an auto-save option, and a quick save option. In a P&P roleplaying game, you wouldn't have those options -- you live with the choices that you make for your character. As a DM, I'd get really ticked off if players started whining after their characters died from a blatantly stupid action.

And, KangaxxJR, I'll say it again: when you decided to kill-off that guy in the tavern, well, live with the consequences. You, as a person, knew from reading spoilers that Ployer was going to poison Jaheira. Your character had no idea; it had never been mentioned to him. Guess what, you got caught cheating. So, I really don't have any empathy for you, or your situation. Go back to an older save and replay it if you really feel stuck. If you don't feel like doing that, live with it.

 

If anyone hates bugs here - that's me. I even starteda thread about bugs in Black Isle games long time ago:
http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000433.html


But, as Gnolyn Lochbreaker said, killing around everything that moves without reason is not a bug. It always has consequences. Just for those consequences, you can't declare it as a bug.

 

BG and especially BG2 are very linear games. It's more like reading a book than playing a PnP RPG.
Actually... its even more linear than a book since you can skip a chapter in a book but you can't do that in BG2.

This isn't an RPG (Role Playing Game)! It is a CRPG (Computer RPG)!

If you attempt to step out of the confines of the storyline you will be punished like in your examples.
To tell you the truth a good way to play BG/BG2 is to first read a walkthrough and then play the games...