Thief kit opinions?

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What are your thoughts about each kit? If you think any of them are bad just let me know. I'm trying to decide which one to choose but I'm not sure. I've played the Bounty Hunter a little before and liked him but I've never tried the others. They don't really look as good as the Bounty Hunter?

Assassin has poison use it once every 4 levels.
Backstab for up to x7 (VERY nice) [nothing telling you when the backstab levels go up?]
+1 to hit & damage rolls.
Only 15 points to spend on thieving skills per level.


Bounty HunterHas special traps.
+15% to set traps.
Only 20 skill points per level.


Swashbuckler+1 per 5 levels to AC, as well as +1 to hit & damage rolls.
Up to 2 points in melee weapons. Up to 3 points in 2-weapon fighting.
No backstab ability.
The normal 25 points for thief skills per level.


ShadowdancerHas no use of "set snares" which kills it so I wont even bother to list what else the class does as I love my traps. That's my main pick when I get the HLA. Probably why I like the BH

Any thoughts? All are welcome
This is for my main character if that matters.

 

Bounty hunter is probably the best of the kits but since Yoshimo is a BH I've never wanted one as a main character. It's a lot like the Skald bard -- once you get HLAs the special abilities of the class become somewhat meaningless. SoA -- they're great ... ToB -- not so great.

Swashbuckler is fun to play and very different from the traditional thief. You still get traps but no backstab. There's no real need for stealth so you can focus on other abilities and make a very different thief -- detect illusion is nice for the swashbuckler. I like to play a good character for swashbuckler.

Assassin is a great evil protagonist, but a bit weak. A fighter/thief is better all around (even at backstabbing because the F/T hits more often). A great non-legal character is the fighter/assassin -- a half-orc fighter/assassin with a 19 strength is the ultimate backstabber (the kensai/thief is also quite good). If you like backstabbing then this is your character. The slow progression is not that bad, you just keep Yoshimo or Nalia until you get Imoen -- just focus on hide in shadows, move silently and traps (he wants to kill, not steal). When you get to ToB you'll have plenty of skill points to be a competent thief.

IMO, multiclass is the way to go for thieves. They completely smoke all the kits.

 

Yeah, the F/A is overkill -- every pun intended. But it's a lot of fun.

The weapon selection for a C/T is limiting -- but the first +4 weapon you can get is a staff as is the best backstabbing weapon in the game. Once you get use any item you can even use the staff of the magi for the constant invisibility. I really liked playing a C/T, I thought it was more interesting to play than a M/T. But I agree, my favorite for a thief is the F/T.

 

Straight thieves are not that interesting. Fighter/thief combinations are generally much better with little impact on thieving abilities.

As for the kits, bounty hunter is good, I like the special traps, which overall work quite well. The 20 pts per level is not that much of a hit on thieving skills either.

Assassin is good for a backstabbing kind of thief. Backstab mulitplier progresses as normal, but continues to increase with x6 at lvl 17 and x7 at lvl 21. Big damage in theory, in practice a bit let down by the thief THAC0. Also assassins need the best hide in shadows they can get (and it does improve over 100, 150 is much more reliable). Not so sure how necessary move silently is, but I always boost it, just in case. The 15 pts per level really hurts for the assassin, because of this, though. Until late SoA, early ToB you'll want/need another character to do your lock picking and trap disarming for you.

Swashie is ok, but more like a lightweight fighter that can unlock and disarm as well. Maybe do some scouting. A fighter is better at fighting and for me a thief should be able to backstab.

I agree with T2B and dmc that, when you get down to it, a straight thief is not the best option. Like clerics, I feel that thieves really benefit from a multi or dual class from fighter. They can do so without too much disadvantages.

Figther dualled to thief is very powerful - dualling at lvl 13 fighter will still allow you get a lvl 39 thief, though you'll need another thief at lower levels for the thieving things. Even a cleric can reach lvl 38 after dualling from fighter at lvl 13. Assuming you reach the level cap by the end of ToB, of course.

I generally prefer dual classed thieves and clerics as I feel that the multi-class kind of limits the higher levels (especially for clerics, which get much fewer high level spell slots). Of course you'll miss out on the fighter HLAs in that case.

A kensai dualled to thief is very powerful combination. A fighter/assassin multi- or dual class is also very powerful, though not a legal combination in BG2.

I like the idea of a thief/illusionist gnome as there seems a lot of synergie between the two (invisibility instead of hiding in shadows, for instance), though I could never get it to work that well.

I never tried a C/T, should try that some time.

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Hmm, only gnomes and half-orcs can be C/T multi classes. And gnomes incur a -1 to WIS. I'd have thought dwarves and halflings would've been able to get a C/T multi class as well, but nope. It's the only multi-class option half-elves don't have, too.

 

Gnome Illusionist/Thief is an excellent, non-cheat, thief-type. But you already have Jan, though you can create a much higher-stat-d version than Jan. Jan's equipment is pretty good in SoA. Stun bolts are awesome.

C/T is a great build for Half-Orc.

My favorite theif build is Human Mage dualled to Thief for Blur, Mirror Image and all the Invisy spells.

I have also tried Human Cleric(9) dualled to Thief. It limits your weapon selection, but gives you a healer, more HP, Sanctuary and several protection spells.

 

Wow. Thieves stink I'm getting here. Lol. Unless you dual/multi them. I usually dual from a Wiz Slayer or Kensai but was thinking of trying a straight thief but I guess not Going to give a cleric/thief a try and see how that goes.
Thank you all for your info/opinions. You have saved me from the abyss. Lol.
Seriously though, it is much appreciated.

 

Single class thieves (any kit except the vanilla one) are decent party members. I wouldn't make one a PC though unless you plan bringing a lot of extra-powerful people.

The Assassin sucks at general combat. He'll likely also have terrible lockpicking/disarm traps (don't even bother raising these at lower levels). However, the kit is extremely powerful in specific situations (there are many situations, especially in SoA, where you can set traps before combat or begin combat with a backstab). I always max Set Traps on my Assassin first, because you get enough invisibility rings/potions and because I don't bother trying to make him useful at general combat beyond what he can do with just a decent bow/arrows and poison. As long as he guarantees or at least helps give me an easy win against Mencar and co (seven vales group), Gallobchair and co (temple district sewers group), the Celestial Fury group, liches, trolls (can be slain by poison for some reason), the slavers, cowled wizards (free XP!), the twisted rune, etc. I don't particularly care.

The Bounty Hunter is a lot like the Assassin, except his special traps are like extra Fireball castings at lower levels. Unlike the Assassin though he starts out powerful and then grows less and less useful with levels (max x5 backstab and high level special traps maze the target - you usually stop using them around that point). And then everyone starts getting the trap HLAs...
The Swashbuckler is unique in that he's good at general combat and has some situational usefulness (he can set traps). As pointed out, he doesn't particularly need stealth so you can also focus on increasing his high lockpick/disarm/detect illusions.

 

IT isn't that thieves suck as much as a multiclass thief gets all of what you need in easy time.

If you want to single class thief the overall most powerful is the bounty hunter for sure. Early game you get extra traps which will help you kill and at higher levels you will find that being able to throw traps that hit many targets can keep him useful as a means to control the flow of battle. For instance you throw a special trap and it mazes a group of various enemies. Each enemy has different int so each enemy type comes back at a different rate. This allows you to pick off enemies in smaller groups. I will admit though this ability is mostly unnecessary in a party game and much more needed in a solo game (BH are best solo thief). On the plus side its down side of fewer points is mostly unnoticeable by the start of SOA assuming 19-19 dex. I had 100% in Open locks, F?R traps, and 90-100% on open traps at the start of SOA with my bounty hunter and with some basic items I could stealth with fair reliability.

I don't like assassins much. Poison is useful in the early game and the numbers look nice in the late game but there are too many enemies immune to back stabs in ToB and too many times you can't get it to work out for me to make my main character an assassin. Further for almost the entire game you will want another thief to do your job (which sucks to force you to have to have two thieves) or you will have to wait a long time to be reliable at stealth. Sadly the lack of points is noticeable.


Swashbucklers are fun and you can get some good tactical thrills using them. You use them similar to how you use a fighter but you don't want them to get surrounded. Their AC will be excellent as will their thac) and damge (eventually) but their HP will always be low and you will need to equip them with the correct weapons in order to get their attacks per round up (belm, kundane, etc). Personally I love the idea about swashbucklers but I do think they need a little more to be complete (I think it would be good to give them fighter con bonuses, fighter ApR, start with two points in two weapon fighting, and give them a penalty in thief skills) and having full thief skills is a bit overkill. Sweashbucklers also make great ranged characters due to their damage bonus.

 

I like swashbucklers dualed to clerics at level 24. Pick use any item then dual class and you will be able to use swords as a cleric. With the cleric buffs on top if the swashbuckler perks you are a powerhouse

 

I admit that is a relatively unique idea though I would not want to wait that long personally.

 

It is a long wait admittedly, but both classes level quickly. if you have a decent party to help you out at low cleric levels, then it goes fairly smoothly. And you retain your thief capabilities such as laying traps, casting mage scrolls, etc.