What is Lawful Good?

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All right. I've started this thread because I'm irritated at the common misconceptions of Lawful Good that abound. Darien and Lokken particularly spurred me to write this...

First, what Lawful Good is not. Lawful Good does NOT mean that the character is a pushy, holier-than-thou, repent or die type person. Just because many people roleplay them this way does not make it true for all. This is similar to the common assumption that all CN's are insane. It's simply not true.

Good is the protection of life. Good people are selfless by nature; they give time, effort, and goods for others' benefit. Evil people live for themselves and themselves alone. Evil is death and destruction to all that does not serve their own personal gain.

Lawfulness means that a PC respects authority and believes in doing what is just. This does not mean they have no mercy! Neither does it mean (as has been so often said of paladins) that they will serve the law whether it be truly right or not. For a paladin, allegiance belongs first to his god, and thus any law that contradicts the teaching of his god will NOT be obeyed. Neither does respecting authority necessarily mean obedience.

A Lawful Good person is one who in every situation tries to do what is Right. They have a moral code they adhere to. Lawful Good people aren't necessarily bible thumpers out to convert the world. It is only necessary that they themselves live it.

I'm having trouble thinking right now, as it's been a long day. I will post this as is, and edit later if necessary.

 

In my opinion, that's an accurate rant.

But in the *VAST* majority of characters that I've seen in not only single player, but heard about in multiplayer, it's completely askew.

There's several people who, just by their nature and experience, are 'lawful good' when it comes to cheating. They think cheaters are amoral thieves in all cases, not only limited to AD&D; It's not just wrong, but it's a 'crime against humanity', and any Lawful-good aligned individual should see it as a threat to their existance/way-of-life.

Parallax CAN be a good thing...

 

Capstone, I'm sorry. You're right, and I was just giving you a hard time. Don't listen to me, I'm just a pain in the ass with a bad attitude. Sorry...

 

Actually, most 'hellfire and brimstone' types are lawful neutral.

Lawful vs Chaotic has to do with one's personal nature, not the legal system. Are you organized? Do you have a strict ethical code? Or are personal freedoms more important than duties and obligations? Issues like that.

Good and Evil have as much to do with methodology as they do with ideology. Its entirely possible to have evil characters who are heroic and working for the same goals as the "good" guys. Most 'evil' characters would be just as opposed to demons as any paladin. The main difference is that the evil character would be just as happy to use torture, blackmail, and assassination to get the job done. And be much more likely to feather his own nest in the process.

Evil is just as badly stereotyped in RPGs as any of the other 'alignments'. Few people are ideologically evil, even in a world with evil gods. But plenty of people are willing to engage in all sorts of doubledealing, abusive behavior, and other evil stuff when they think they can get away with it.

Aloha
Vormaerin

 

There is a terrible amount of steriotyping of alignments and you are completely right about everything you said, I'm sick of the 'holier than thou' people but that's just beacause they are so common. If there wasn't so much steriotyping then I wouldn't be sick of them at all.

Cheers, Void.

 

Slightly off topic, but I think 'clerics' SHOULD try and convert other players to their faith, as part of the roleplay. The idea of handing out cures willy nilly to all and sundry, and that cures 'cost' the same at every Temple whether its your faith or a diametrically opposed one never feels right to me.

 

A lot of controversy.... I do have to agree that truly the Lawful Neutral should be the holier than thou types... and I would like to think Capstone for the englightenment

 

Well, Temples should certainly favor their faithful in some way and shun those known to be opposed to their goals. I've never been fond of the "know alignment" type stuff as an IC thing.

As for proselytizing, that's a bit different. While most modern monotheistic religions are missionary in nature, that is hardly true of all of them (Judaism is profoundly NOT missionary) and is particularly untrue of polytheistic religions. Universality is not often considered a trait of the gods in polytheistic systems. Gods were carried along with other cultural expansion. Even then, more often than not, the 'new gods' were simply merged with existing local gods. "Eh? Amuanator? That must be your foreign name for Pelor." Further, most people worshipped all the gods in a pantheon, though they may have special favoritism for certain gods. "Evil" gods like Talos and Umberlee tend to get offerings to encourage them to stay away, while gods like Waukeen and Lathander tend to get offerings to show up. However, the same people are likely making offerings to all four (except for priests and paladin types).

So, fantasy clerics should be making the god's message known, but generally aren't seeking anything like what we call "conversion". Rivalries between the gods would be mostly limited to their clerics.

Aloha
Vormaerin

 

I agree with Erran, clerics and Paladins should be attempting to spread the faith be it by eliminating the enemy or by adding new followers to the flock. Clerics are sent forth with a mission and they need to keep that mission in mind as they interact with other. And a temple of the same faith would of course give healing for free or a reduced rate to it's clerics and knights for they are the defenders of the faith. ON the other hand a different faith might charge more or even turn folks away.

 

Heh, somehow I expected more arguments.

Darien, no apology necessary. This first came to my attention some months ago when people were bashing on paladins; it was just what you said the other night that reminded me to post about it.

Erran, I do agree that some proselytizing should take place. But bearing in mind the pantheistic nature as expressed by Vormaerin, it's considerably less aggressive. As he pointed out, most FR inhabitants believe in multiple gods; they just choose to worship one above the others. Note also that the spheres of gods' influence tends to predetermine who their followers will be; not much point in trying to convince an elven wizard to follow Moradin, for example.

 

Cansomeone please explain what:

Proselytizing
&
Pantheistic​

mean please?.

You think all that is bad, you should see my friends lawfull good Assassin, it doesn't make any sense, or is it just how he observes good?.

Do you think Neutral good is ok for a dwarf?, i forget what alignment we followers of Moradin posses?
Hey the title Dwarven god of war is confusing

 

pros·e·ly·tize (prs-l-tz)
v. pros·e·ly·tized, pros·e·ly·tiz·ing, pros·e·ly·tiz·es
v. intr.
To induce someone to convert to one's own religious faith.
To induce someone to join one's own political party or to espouse one's doctrine.

pan·the·ism (pnth-zm)
n.
A doctrine identifying the Deity with the universe and its phenomena.
Belief in and worship of all gods.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
panthe·ist n.
panthe·istic or panthe·isti·cal adj.
panthe·isti·cal·ly adv.

 

eh, just to be pedantic, I didn't express a "pantheistic" viewpoint, I expressed a 'polytheistic' viewpoint.

Although polytheistic religions organize their gods into pantheons (or, more precisely, *mythologists* organize their gods into pantheons!), that has nothing to do with pantheism, which (as Extremist noted) refers to a belief in everthing being part of the divinity or possessing a divine spirit.

Aloha
Vormaerin

 

I apologize, I was wrong. I did indeed confuse pantheism with the pantheon. My only excuse is that I was in a hurry to finish so I could eat.

 

Snorri: Any alignment is good for a PC but the usual alignment for a dwarf is Lawful Good. And that is what Moradin is as well.

 

Hmm, I almost always play dwarves as Neutral Good. I perceive them as being more hardheaded, practical, or perhaps even stubborn I suppose.

 

I've always made lawful good dwarfs (sometime the odd neutral good) but mainly lawful.

Cheers, Void.

 

im sorry to open this post back up..but what about Chaotic Good, i play mostly as dwarven fighters or clerics. and i normally run it Chaotic Good. and they are normally praying to Moradin. i dont really get the big deal about alignment. some one is going to play there char. however they will..and if its not liked by anyone else, then normally they have to find someone else to play with.

 

Alignment doesn't have anything to do with how well the players or their characters get along. It exists as a means of dealing with various supernatural effects. You need some sort of alignment system (or a personality trait system) to answer questions like "can I pick up this holy sword without getting burned?".

It shouldn't be a straightjacket for roleplaying, though it often seems to be used that way.

Aloha
Vormaerin

 

I agree about Lawful Good, and I feel that way about the other alignments too. 2nd edition really fouled up the align. system by confining them into such narrow classifications. I was getting sick of the classically paladin-like Lawful Good-types, the dull and staid Lawful Neutral type, and the worst and to me, least accurate, insane chaotic neutral. You don't have to be a mental patient to be a free spirit.

I'm glad to see that people take the interpretations into their own hands to make the alignments more sensible and less stereotypical.