What makes a ticket legit?

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So if i violated a traffic law, and was witnessed by a police, and this police gave me a ticket/summon. So there were just me and this police, what makes what this police said is true? How can this lone police going around issuing ticket and the court believe whatever this police issued is true?

 

As far as i know single policeofficers never hand out tickets in traffic, when they do there's always two of them. One policeman wouldn't pull you over here in Holland, at least not to my knowledge, because of the fact that he needs a whitness who saw the same violation he did so that the ticket is in fact legit. However, nowadays there's a bigger chance you get caught by a camera than by a cop of flesh and blood, they are far more effective, they don't need breaks or vacations, and pictures never lie.

 

That's how it normally goes. Two cops are also the rule in Germany for the very same reason. More generally, cops have made an oath to uphold public law and order, and thus there is in the court system a general presumption of them being truthful. Generally that makes a lot of sense, and in my country that view usually reflects reality. I put that in contrast to city auxiliaries who are tasked with enforcing parking regulations, or ticket controllers in public transport, who are both getting paid bonuses for each ticket they write and who have to meet quotas. In these cases there is a clear incentive for abuse of authority, which I do not see with cops.
That leads to citizens vs police in court having a poor chance of success in cases of misdemeanors if there aren't witnesses, or when you are not able to argue that traffic signs in the area have been misleading or that the ticket you got in contradiction to these traffic signs.
The alternative would be total CCTV surveillance and him being able to prove your misconduct, or you your innocence - and that isn't really desirable either. But then, maybe the Global War on Terror has quietly granted you that option

In cases of speeding our courts usually rely on technical evidence such as photos with measured speed, because that is inherently more reliable than the human eye, not to mention that it cuts the lamenting. I remember my dad being outraged about a ticket he got, and getting very quiet when he got the photo with him clearly visible, in his car, smiling and 30km/h too fast. There generally, especially in the US with it's excessive liability and tort laws, is a clear trend toward technical documentation of all aspects of police work to speed up the process.

No witnesses being there can also be seen as an advantage - police has no witnesses either. Of course you can always argue that the policeman erred, and if you were to do that, which I wouldn't, I recommend strongly to stick with that literally, as all other options (lieing, malevolently even) are not only much less persuasive but accuse the policeman of misconduct or felonies. Bad idea IMO.
Consult an expert for your local laws in that matter if you really want to challenge the ticket. There is of course the inherent risk that a lawyer will tell you to challenge the ticket because he gets money out of doing so.

 

in the us (well the southern half at least) most officers patrol solo.

it also depends on the officer whether you get a ticket, a warning or just a tap on the siren.

some officers won't write you a ticket unless you run them off the road.

others will write you up for doing 39 in a 35 mph zone!

 

Just in case, i said "if" which means i didn't really violated anything, i am just curious.

 

Up here, we tend to have Constables patrolling singly, as well - North America is just so BIG and SPARSE compared to Europe, I guess.

But Rags nailed all the major points.

Ideally the police officer is an instrument of law and order, and views infractions unbiased, and has been CHOSEN for good judgment in the part of his/her job being that of accusing citizens of wrongdoing and issuing citations or performing arrests.

In practice, a law enforcer is still human and falible, which is why (s)he is not the only person involved in the determination and resolution of justice; a ticket or citation goes before the Court, and then things are examined further by one whose very job TITLE implies good judg(e)ment.

Admittedly, in many cases of traffic citations, the accused basically admits to the wrong doing and doesn't contest it, paying the fine, etc.

And where the court is the forum for resolving a dispute of the accused's, Rags is right again with physical evidence (video recordings - most police crusiers have dash-mounted cameras over here, 'speed trap camera' photos, etc.) and witness testimony the meat of how it's settled.

To make a long story short: any ticket a cop writes up will likely have to go before a judge (for oversight, in a manner of speaking) so that can be a deterrent to a L.E.O. being over-zealous or frivolous in passing out citations...those who sit on The Bench don't take a very positive view of this sort of over-zealousness when it can 'waste the Court's time' - they can seriously curtail an officer's career.

But it IS an interesting question, teek - thanks for reminding us of "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

 

I believe you location will determine how many officers are there when you are pulled over. I know in Maine state side you can get pulled over by one lone officer. If you contest the ticket and the officer shows up to the court hearing it is held up in a court of law since he/she is a professional protecting and serving the public. If the cop doesn't show the ticket is dismissed. You can even plea bargin to only pay the fine and have nothing else count against you and most courts will accept this offer as they are trying to do one thing with these violations and that is raise money for their town, city, state, etc...

 

The court will ALWAYS take the word of a police officer over that of a driver. Period. You WILL lose that fight.

 

Cops benefit from the presumption of lawful acting. Basically like any other authority. Here in Poland, they won't normally go single and give you tickets, but it's not like they can't. If you contest the ticket, you get summons to the lowest court instance, comparable to Anglo-Saxon magistrates, but professional and only dealing with misdemeanours (in practice, it's a special division of the lowest criminal court). It's more like you either pay the ticket or get charged with a misdemeanour, than challenge the ticket per se.

I don't think you stand much chance if you want to dispute the facts the cop established, but you're obviously better off before the court than before the cop if you want to argue that the facts qualify for a different law from what he chose, or that his reconstruction of facts is physically impossible, or that you couldn't physically have seen the traffic sign, things like that. Or you can probably challenge the amount of fine itself with some success if it's arbitrary.

 

In the states single officers can give out tickets(i've had 3 in the past 18months) but you can generally just pay a lawyer $100 and have it dropped to equipment malfuncion, which basically means you pay the fine but don't have the points go against your license...which is good or I wouldn't have one right now.

new gem

 

Waitasec. The lawyer leaves the office for $100?

 

Here 100$ (and in certain places much less) should be enough to avoid the fine as well as the points.

 

Well, first, i have lost some confidence for the police in Malaysia. Public security in Johor Bahru (southern end) is so bad that residents have started petition of 10-ten thousands signature. Then i remembered something happened years ago. Me and me father was driving on the highway. He was speeding and stopped by traffic police. The police said "Hi sir, you in hurry?" My father was calm and cool, and he took out his waller and flipped out RM100 "here take this first". The police took it "don't do this again". And my father continued speeding. Clearly, police in Malaysia has an incentive to "pretend" to issue summons because lazy blind public will just pay the bribe.

 

Never had confidence in the Malaysian police force to begin with. If I'm not mistaken, after the spate of crimes in Johor Bahru, some people went to protest at the Menteri Besar's house (something like a chief of state) to urge him to take action and I think the police arrested about 100 people.

And you can bribe most Malaysian cops from giving you a ticket anyway. Its like common knowledge, lol.

 

Wow, that doesn't typically happen in the states. The only time that you would get hit with an additional fine for asking for a court date, would be if you were a repeat offender. Most people I know who have not had a ticket in 3 years (the time a ticket stays on your driving record) will go to court hoping for one of two occurrance. Best case scenario is that the cop doesn't show up, in which case, no points, no fine, you're in the clear. Worst case is that cop does show up, in which case you switch to plan B, which is plead guilty, and ask the court for leniency.

Last fall I got pulled over for going 9 mph over the speed limit, and got a ticket for $80 and two points on my license. I went to court, and sure enough, the cop showed up. I plead guilty, and told the judge that I really didn't want the points on my license because my insurance would go up. Since my driving record was clean other than that one offense, the judge proposed reducing the ticket to 5 mph over the speed limit, which is a $40 fine, and no points. The cop agreed to the deal, and I was only more than happy to as well. So I got the fine cut in half and no points.

That having been said, I've never heard of anyone going to court and having their fine increased, unless of course, they have a terrible driving record, in which case you're definitely better off paying the fine.

 

the cheapest you will get out of a ticket way down here in the south is $145

cost of court = $105
minimum fine = $40
the fine for speeding here is a floating scale
5 mph over = $40
6-10 over = $7/mph over
11-15 over = $8/mph over

anything over 15 over is either a suspension of your license or a BIG fine!

edit: just talked to one of the deputy sherrifs workin @ the courthouse. seems the cost of court charge has went up to $145.
so base cost on a speeding ticket is noe $185.00

[ July 05, 2007, 22:48: Message edited by: martaug ]