What to do with Native peoples?

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OK, let's get things rolling here.

I have recently started teaching at a college at night in addition to my day work. The college is open to everyone, but has a lot of Native students (if you find the term offensive, please substitute another one like indiginous, aboriginal, First Nations, or the like). YOu would not believe the support programs that exist to help these people.

In addition, at least here in Canada, we are constantly bombarded by media products that are designed to instill guilt in the people of European descent for the treatment of the Native population over the past 500 years or so. It never lets up. Now, certainly that treatment was often very, very bad -- anyone who denies that fact is, IMHO, the equivalent of a Holocaust denier. But I do not feel guilt for things that I did not do. I am capable of feeling sorrow for the lies told to the Natives and the promises broken by my ancestors.

I also have seen, however, both at my new job and in other instances, the unbelievable amounts of money and time that has been put toward helping these communities.

For example, I saw a school on a Native reservation, man it was beautiful. Top notch construction and facilities. MUCH nicer than any of the public schools off the reserve.

Yet despite all of the guilt stirred and money thrown at these communities, they still have horrendous problems. A large percentage of them do not graduate. Alcohol and drug abuse is a major problem for these communities (this is not a racist comment, any honest Native commentator will confirm these statistical facts.) I get frustrated -- what can we do to help these people? If we give them money, the problem is not solved. If we don't give them money, the problem is not solved. Any program, even if designed with the input of the Native community, is shot down from some corner as "racist", yet if the government does nothing the "racist" comments come too.

If we step into a Native community to stop its oppression of women, we are accused of forcing our cultural values onto a different but equally valid culture. If we don't, we're racists for not caring about the rights of Native women. If we try to encourage Native youth to finish high school, we are stealing their cultural heritage. if we don't try to educate them, we are obviously racist for not making an effort to help them achieve academic parity with their non-Native peers.

I have met a lot of really awesome Native people. One of my favorite Canadian authors is Thomas King, a native. This isn't intended to be an anti native rant at all. My question is, realistically*, what the hell can we do to address the problems that this community has?

*Meaning no talk about sending all people of European descent back to Europe, while that may be the perfect solution for some, it is 1000% impractical. Not gonna happen, period.

 

LKD, I've gotta say - you're making some damn fine posts/topics lately. Please keep it up.

That said - it's Friday, I'm sleep deprived, hungover and hungry...so the above is about all I can muster. I'll check back on the weekend. This topic looks like it'll get good...

 

It is the same problem with all minorities. When a minority segregates itself from the majority (either on purpose or has it forced upon them) you end up with ghettos, slums, inner cities, reservations, etc.

I know it is a radical idea, but I have always thought that we should bust up these enclaves.

 

I don't even have that level of guilt, because my ancestors weren't involved in that. At the time the Natives were getting screwed over and pushed off the continent, most of the Foppish Ancestors were peasants living in eastern Europe.

I don't know what to do though - we gave them casinos - isn't that good enough?

 

I have given issues similar to this a bit of thought and I must say that I have pondered what Snook is talking about. Letting the segregation and "ghettofication" continue unabated just to let people live where they want doesn't seem like a good idea for anyone. Hard to move people who already live somewhere except by giving incentives to spread people around. I for one think new arrivals in a country should get some incentive to not go join their old countrymen in the ghetto where there is no chance for integration or getting a job.

 

Whether it's in Canada or the US, any and all of the Native peoples have had more than enough time to mix-in with the modern cultures that have evolved in both countries.

When do we say enough is enough with restitution? I think we have paid more than our share back to them. The problem is they see themselves as a seperate people from the rest of us. They need to get with the program and join the 21st century. Time to get a job, not use drugs. Time to get motivated and get off your butts. It's time to wakeup and live your life, not whine about your ancestors. Things have changed, upon up your eyes.

 

Welcome to the Republican party (Sorry, I couldn't resist)

 

Thanks! What do i win?

Funny thing is, i voted Republican for the 1st time last year. But since I was voting in Illinois, it didn't mean squat. But i don't consider myself a Republican, i just thought they were the lesser of the two evils this time around. After rereading my 1st post just now, that was a bit harsh I guess, but I still feel that way about it.

 

Something Ive always witnessed, a people who see themselves as oppressed breed that oppression within themselves, to a level of bitterness they will always hold to that oppression regardless of whether or not it exists.

 

Well, I don't know how it is in the US, but in Canada, they see themselves as a separate people because we made them that way. We stick them on reservations with minimal resources, and if they want to leave, they do so with no education or money. No wonder so many of them end up on the street. There are, of course, manny exceptions to this (Beren is a perfect example, and hopefully he'll give his perspective), but in general, they're treated like second class citizens.

 

Shoshino, I think you hit the nail on the head. In the end, the problem is one within their culture. The only options are to entirely destroy te culture, or let the culture fix it themselves.

Splunge, what do you mean by "stick them on reservations"? You make it sound like they don't have a choice. At the same time, LKD seems to describe a situation where money is plentiful for them. Is there much disparity between reservations (maybe one takes better advantage of the system than another)?

 

I'm not an expert but I know that different treaties apply to different groups. If one group was able to negotiate a good treaty or has good lawyers fighting in court, they can get tons of money for the reservation. Other areas get squat and the conditions on those reservations are a national disgrace.

Other reservations are located on oil or gas deposits, and they get big bucks from the drilling companies. That money is sometimes dispersed to each band member once they hit 18 -- in the town where I lived, kids at 18 would get a huge chunk of money, which they would then proceed (like any teen would) on extravagant purchases that made their peers envious and further exacerbated divisions. Often they blow through the money and end up with nothing.

The reservations are a tricky issue. On the one hand I personally think that they end up being a de facto apartheid system. On the other hand, a promise was made, and we promised to leave them with that land in perpetuity. We should, as a nation, keep our promises. But what if those promises come into the conflict with our ideals of equality?

I'd like to see a society that encourages Natives to honor their various cultures and heritages while at the same time encouraging them to join the mainstream society and partake of all the benefits that come from that. Lots of other cultures can do that -- the two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

It seems to me like a lot of people treat the natives as second class citizens.
Yes, you shouldn't feel guilty about what your ancestors did but at the same time, don't start thinking that patronizing them and chucking money at them is what's best. Don't start thinking you do know what's for the best either. At the end of the day, your ancestors moved into their country, forced them out of their land, killed off a load of them and believed that they were superior because of it.

Maybe if you accepted that you were the foreign immigrants and not the supreme rulers, things would go better.

BTW, I'm drunk

 

Very well stated. I'm not sure if that deserves a or a

 

well you type very well for someone whoses drunk! You probably should probably include this in the drunk threads in Whatnots "yeah, iposted on sorcerers drunk..."

So, yes, the native issue. It is a very tough situation to tackle. First off, pretty much everybody seems to agree that what was done to the natives by the arriving europeans was wrong. However, it's not just that. Of course it would be difficult to feel guilt after three or four centuries. Only, it hasn't there.

First off, if you take the Inuit (or the more pejorative term, eskimo). The government wanted them to stay in the reservation and not running around, so they took away their modes of transportation. Government men went to the reservations at night and killed all the dogs. The Inuit were than skrewd because they couldn't leave with their sleighs.

In natives reservations, the government men would come in and take away the children (with force) from their parents. They then would put the children in a special (catholic) school so they would have a good education. Of course, what really happened was that they were beaten, raped. They received little or no education (unless you consider washing the floors and making the meals education). This did not happen 200 years ago. We're talking about 40 something years ago.

There's also the native status. Much of the government policies and tax exemption were dependent on the native status. As it were, the women had specific rules. For example, if a woman married a non-native, she lost her native status and was escorted of the reservation's premises.

And as other visible minorities, it is recent that they don't suffer discrimination, verbal insults, etc.

As for positive change, there's only one way to change reservation drug and alcohol habits : the children. If you instill hope, leadership, self esteem, good education, they will be tommorrow's leaders. A former hockey player, Joé Juneau, on a trip in nothern Québec, stubbled upon a reservation. Upon seeing how they lived, he returned and opened a hockey school. However, he has strict rules : the children's grades has to be top notch and they have to manage their schedules. If the school teachers say they are disruptive in class, they also get pulled out of the program. This teaches responsibility for the children and make them into responsible adults, which is what the native needs.

 

Thank you, Beren. It’s good to have some perspective from someone on the inside, so to speak. Although, being the smart-ass that I am, I have to comment on this:

- he must have been pretty strong to hit you with another person.

I sit on a volunteer Board of Directors for a non-profit agency; one of our primary focuses is to assist homeless people in the downtown area of Winnipeg (I’m the Treasurer); anyone familiar with Winnipeg wouldn’t be surprised to hear that our clientele is largely Aboriginal. Therefore, I probably have a bit more insight into the difficulties Aboriginals face than most non-Aboriginals. Homeless Aboriginals in Winnipeg are often referred to as “at-risk” in terms of their lifestyle and prospects; one of our Board members made the astute observation that, in fact, “at-risk” would be a step up for most of them.

I’m not really sure where I’m going with this, other than to say that Aboriginals in Canada face difficulties that most of us can’t comprehend. Certainly many of them don’t really try to overcome their challenges; on the other hand, we don’t really give them the opportunity to do so.

 

Ok, so how are opportunities denied to them that are available to others? I can understand education is a pretty big hit on opportunities but, as Beren proves, that's not insurmountable (or am I missing something on Beren's history). There are plenty of people around the world, and even here in the US, who have poor to no education and still make something of themselves. Discrimination in the workplace and with jobs is also certainly a factor, but how common is that? Are there any other issues?

Understand, while I know next to nothing about how Natives in the US are treated today, I'd be shocked if much of the stuff you guys are describing happens here. I imagine that if just about anyone tried much of that, they'd be in and out of court so fast that bringing cab-fare would be a good idea, as the Native would be driving their car home.

 

There's something about the thread title that rubs me the wrong way. I think because in it 'native peoples' are something 'we'--meaning, I presume, whitey (or the majority of the population. Which, uh, is whitey)--need to or should do something to or with.

"What to do with black people?"
"What to do with Jews?"
"What to do with Muslims?"

Yeah, those aren't any better.

Not really germane to the thread, I know.