Where is FEMA?

Remove all ads!

New Orleans collapses into anarchy. People die from lack of basic services. Where is FEMA, the federal agency charged to deliver those services? Find out at http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion//index.php?ntid=525638ntpid=1.

 

Haven't you played DeusEx? FEMA's preparing to subdue America, hand in hand with the more sinister elements of UNATCO ...

Well, more serious an answer gives the Financial Times. It's about preoccupation.

What did the D.C. elites focus on? What is the actual threat to the people?

How many hurricanes does the U.S. experience every year? Many. How many forrest fires? Many. What about floods? Where do many of the first responders come from when an incidents overwhelms local authorities? National guard.

How many acts of terror did the U.S. experience the last year on U.S. soil? Is the average American more likely to be blown up by a Bin Laden or to be affected by the effects of a natural disatser? Does planning reflect these realities?

The FT puts it dryly:

Already, methinks ...

 

This disaster is a case of Americans against Americans, and just goes to show how divided the nation is.

Another point I might add, its how the US has contingency plans for Iran, in the case of another 11th September, but not one for a hurricane, and its not like the US has never experienced a hurricane before. Bush should not have been on holiday pretending to be a rancher, like a surgeon will not be on holiday when s/he knows vital work has to be done.

[ September 02, 2005, 11:13: Message edited by: Cúchulainn ]

 

@Cúchulainn

While I am disgusted/dismayed at the overall failing of government in this crisis, laying the blame at the feet of Bush is weak. Should any president be responsible for drawing up disaster plans for every city in the country, then enacting and overseeing them when a disaster occurs? Obviously not. There are plenty of valid issues to pin on Bush, plenty. This is not one of them. You are just piling on.

The city of New Orleans has known for over 30 years that they were at serious risk for this kind of disaster. The local government (city and state) should have done everything that they could to minimize the impact of such an event. They didn't. They did not even have a plan to deal their lack of action. Amazing. Incompetent.

Finally, how are the statements by Chavez evidence that "This disaster is a case of Americans against Americans, and just goes to show how divided the nation is."?

 

I think many people are confused as to what FEMA really is. FEMA does not have rescue personnel. FEMA does not have the supply line to get relief to a disaster. FEMA does not provide medical assistance.

Simply put, the people at FEMA are trained to identify problems and resources necessary to fix those problems. They are trained to liase with state and local authorites, local businesses, and federal agencies to provide the most effective means to provide emergency assistance. In particular, FEMA provide a focal point to ensure there is not duplication of effort on the part of all agencies assisting a disaster. I've seen several FEMA representatives on the news in New Orleans -- they are doing their job. Even if the masses do not know what that job is.

On the political note -- it was NOT Bush's job to handle the preparation for the hurricane. That was the responsibility of the state and local governments. There is a distinct separation between federal and state government that the president does not cross -- states (and their residents) become very upset when the federal government takes over a state operation. Unfortunately, the job of president is to take the blame when the state and local governments perform inadequately to any task.

Does anyone here seriously think the president did not have adequate resources in Texas to handle running the government? He can run the government from AF1 -- the resources are certainly on the ground in Texas.

Edit: JF beat me to the punch while I was (slowly) typing. Well said.

 

The division is about the rapes that were happening, not just against women, but against children. People should unite in such a disaster, not satisfy their sick sexual desires. Look at the food aid, it taken 2 days to distribute!

About Chavez - I just thought Hugo said it best about 'the king of vacations'.

-I have no idea what he was doing on his ranch, but this disaster was expected, and he was still on holidays. Military personnel should have been on standby, as should have helicopters dropping off food aid - its no good, organising this after disaster strikes. There was enough time for this. As President, its should be Bush's job to look after his people.

 

Fed gov't has alot to say about how state money is spent, especially on large projects. I've written a longer response on the AoDA thread, which I won't repeat here, but I sincerely hope that public attention is directed to the public funding of disaster preparation, levees, wetland preservation, etc over the next few months. Follow the money as they say...

So if FEMA is powerless, and only in an advisory control, what exactly are we spending trillions on the DHS for then? To fingerprint Brazillians at airports?

Edit: so, while I often find dailykos shrill and painful, I really appreciate this roundup of the situation currently on the front page. And yes, there are links to everything:

 

So now we're yet degenerating from a discussion about FEMA to political attacks. Bion, that article was just plain silly (wow, I've used that word twice today) and clearly biased -- I especially like the way a few of the comments are taken out of context.

Your sarcastic question about DHS and FEMA is simply unworthy of reply -- especially since I believe you know the answer better than most here.

Cuchulainn, your comments are quite applicable, but unfortunately the preparations for the disaster were the responsibility of the Governor of Louisianna -- had he simply asked for assistance (and put his own National Guard on alert) things would have happened sooner. I don't see what the military could have done if alerted. There is no place to operate helecopters from for a massive operation. The helicopters do not have the range to come from a hundred mile away and operate for hours in NO -- where are they going to refuel? The only platform that can do the job are Naval platforms -- do you think THEY are going to be at sea in the path of a CAT5 hurricane? I've been at sea in a CAT4 hurricane -- it's not fun. We were running as fast away from it as possible and it caught us. Damn scary.

 

The article that was supposed to lead this thread seems to have dropped off the screen, which shows how unreliable these progressive newspapers can be. It was a long article by Eric Holdeman detailing the dismantling of FEMA by the Bush administration, a fact that events have certainly made obvious enough. I hope the newspaper can get the article back on line, but here's a single sentence from it:

"FEMA employees have been directed not to become involved in disaster preparedness functions, since a new directorate (yet to be established) will have that mission."

 

@T2Bruno: Sure I was being sarcastic, and the dailykos stuff was a bit over the top. But that doesn't make it unjustified.

I don't agree with you at all that state gov'ts bear all responsibility for natural disasters; in fact that has never been the case. Think 9/11, or Hurricane Andrew. Sure, LA and MS have been known to squander public funds, and they could have been much more prepared, but a disaster of this scale by definition requires a federal response.

As for FEMA and the DHS, please tell me exactly what it is that they *do* do, if not to plan for situations like these. And no, they are not merely "advisory" groups, as though we needed to fund some kind of multi-trillion dollar think tank, that by the way still doesn't seem to have the answers people need...

 

The point of the matter is that our entire federal government has fallen far short here. That hurricane sat out in the Gulf for 2 days, stalled at a Cat 5 status. Why, in god's name, they didn't mobilize air units and have the cruisers on standby near the Florida coast, waiting -- is beyond me. The lack of preparedness is unconscionable. They KNEW in advance that this disaster was immenent and did nothing. The HOPE ship was just deployed from Norfolk LAST NIGHT, probably as a second thought. We have a very serious problem in this country -- namely, our leadership.

There are so many errors here, one runs out of fingers with which to point blame (though one in particular does come to mind). We have a President who, with that stupid smirk, stands in his pristine little office and hides. He made one pass over the area a few days ago -- but that was IT. He's afraid to get his pants dirty -- when visible, strong leadership is what the people need right now -- no, needed 3 DAYS ago. He's so missed the boat, it's not even funny. But when this is all said and done, he'll have to answer to us. His administration will go down in the history books as being partly responsible for this tragic loss of human lives and he won't be able to change that. His pants might be dirty then, but from a very different source.

 

What cruisers are you talking about? Navy cruisers have virtually no rescue capability. And why, in God's name would you EVER put a ship in the projected path of a CAT5 hurricane? Remember the hurricane could have turned at any time almost any direction. Navy ships simply do not venture within 500 miles of a hurricane (1000 miles is better). Even at 25 knots (which is a damned fast sustained speed in rough water) it will take 40 hours to cross from a relatively unsafe location (off the coast of Florida) to point of impact. When a hurricane approaches the gulf coast, the only safe place is Norfolk or the middle of the Atlantic -- they turn too often. A CAT5 hurricane is dangerous for even an aircraft carrier. The HOPE was just deployed -- it would NOT HAVE SURVIVED Katrina. The seas are brutal FOR DAYS after a hurricane. You do not put rescue equipment and personnel in the path of the hurricane -- they become casualties and are useless. Even the coast of Florida was unsafe -- the waters were quite dangerous everywhere in the Gulf.

As far as shore based rescue personnel -- just where would you put them? How precise are hurricane predictions? The closest place to safely set the rescue personnel is Oklahoma or Tennessee -- perhaps Ft Hood in Texas would be okay. That's still 500-800 miles away. The roads are out and the Army trucks aren't very quick.

Go back in time -- just what supplies are going to needed and where along the 1000 miles of coastline Katrina may hit? Isn't that a little dependant on where it hits? Or do we just put every supply we can think of at every possible place? And when the hurricane turns and hits Mexico as a tropical storm what do you tell the taxpayers who just had a billion dollars spent?

It's so easy to be Monday morning quarterbacks.

 

Cruisers, you say?

Yup, plans on the shelf for hospital ships and ships to pump water. Guess those plans got lost somehow. Could it have been funding? A handy timeline of FEMA under Bush, courtesy Kevin Drum (all these stories are linked at the site):

So, no, I don't think complaints about preparedness constitute unfair "monday morning quarterbacking." Sorry to keep harping on this, but this whole situation really pisses me off.

 

T2Bruno -- Hurricanes in the Gulf do NOT turn back on themselves and go back into the Caribbean. I watched the Weather Channel for days prior to the hurricane coming ashore -- they knew quite accurately in what direction that storm was moving and when and where landfall would be. I don't believe there has EVER been a hurricane that has gone in reverse and moved back into the Caribbean, where it was spawned.

When I said "cruisers", I meant some sort of military rescue craft. Pardon me if I'm not so astute as to know the names of all the military ships. Regardless, rescue craft or even the HOPE ship should have been off the coast of Florida, perhaps the Miami area or St. Augustine -- within a days ride of NO. They would have been well out of harm's way, yet close enough to get there shortly after the hit. To deploy them as late as yesterday, was using no forethought whatsoever.

Yes, indeed it IS easy to be Monday morning quarterbacks -- for EVERYBODY.

[ September 02, 2005, 21:27: Message edited by: Spellbound ]

 

I agree with you Bion -- the whole situation should piss everyone off. I'm just not willing to point at one or two people and say it's all their fault. There was a whole host of people who fell down here. A couple of the plans you listed in the articles were certainly not viable and I can see why they would not be done -- however, an alternative was also not identified (yet another failure).

The work on the levees would have taken years to be done right (at least to survive a hurricane like this). They were identified as a weak spot during the last Mississippi flood and should have been fixed. By who is a meaningless question now, but the responsibility should be shared by all levels of government.

Spellbound, you missed my point. First of all the spawning point was the middle of the Atlantic -- several hundred miles east of Cuba. And hurricanes do not follow a precise path. Predictions come with a probability. You are right, there was an extremely low probably of it heading to Mexico. However, Katrina could easily have turned further east and impacted Florida -- it has happened before. A CAT5 is a monster. The USS WISCONSIN had it's entire bow ripped off during a CAT4. A aircraft carrier lost part of her bow during a another CAT4. Navy ships simply do not venture into a CAT5 -- they don't intentionally go in any possible path of a CAT5 which is often referred to as the dangerous semi-circle (which in this case would include all of the gulf coast through the keys). The seas around a hurricane are absolutely brutal for hundreds of miles. After three or four days in such seas the entire crew is exhausted -- you can't sleep, eating is difficult. Imagine trying to walk around and work on a rollercoaster -- that's life in a hurricane (I lived in one for several days on a really big ship).

There was no safe place for a ship to go. Jacksonville may have been okay, but Miami would still have been very rough and certainly not the place for the HOPE. The ships most capable of providing help are amphibious task force ships -- these ships are designed take Marines to the beach. They have shallow drafts to facilitate going in shallow water. They do not handle storms well at all. The HOPE and the amphibs can only maintain 18 knots in fairly calm seas -- it's slower in the rough seas of a hurricane (and for a few days after). That means it takes two and a half days to go 1000 miles -- and I certainly would not deploy them any closer than 1000 miles from the edge of the hurricane (which can be a hundred miles across). Miami is about 750 nautical miles from NO -- which would still take 42 hours minimum. You're asking for something that is simply unrealistic. Although I do agree, the HOPE should have put to sea immediately after landfall, she would at least be going around the keys now.

 

T2Bruno -- You need to check your facts about the spawning place of Hurricane Katrina. You are wrong -- it spawned in the Caribbean:
Katrina Birth and Path

or this:

Katrina's Path (Hardly out in the middle of the Atlantic.)

As as for famiarity with hurricanes -- I lived in Florida for 15 years -- I know a good bit about them as well -- and have lived through 3 major evacuations. I'm full well aware of what a Category 5 hurricane is and the damage it can cause. I also am extremely aware of the forecasting capabilities of the Hurricane Center in Miami -- and the fact that they're usually right on the money. Ships placed in the Caribbean or southern Florida would have been SAFE -- Hurricane Katrina just came through that part of the state -- they do not back up and go backwards.

[ September 02, 2005, 23:02: Message edited by: Spellbound ]

 

The New Orleans newspaper, the Times-Picayune, ran an investigative series in 2002, pointing out that the levees were at risk, and required repair and upgrading. Nothing was done. Scientists have said on NPR that what has happened matched exactly their models of what would happen if a hurricane of this force struck. For reasons I do not understand FEMA was a particular bugbear of the neo-cons, and Bush began to downgrade it immediately upon taking office. At the moment Katrina struck they were actually forbidden to involve themselves in disaster preparedness, with consequences that are on every network right now. (Clinton, by contrast, appointed a professional emergency manager, James Lee Witt, to the post upon taking office and kept him there for eight years.) Homeland Security supposedly took over their functions, but they seem to have dropped the ball somewhere downfield. How would these fumblers handle a terrorist attack, if this is how they deal with a natural disaster for which plenty of warning was given?

The Race Card: As any of you watching TV have noticed, the overwhelming majority of those stranded in New Orleans are black. Would the rescue effort have been so sluggish if they were white? Just asking.

T2Bruno says he doesn't want to point at one or two people in this bloody fiasco. But it's really not that difficult. There's the director of FEMA. There's the Director of Homeland Security. And there's the President of the United States.

[ September 03, 2005, 05:01: Message edited by: Cernak ]

 

Much as I would enjoy laying all the blame squarely on the President and his minions that isn't fair. Yes, he downgraded and pretty much eliminated one disaster agency but state and local authorities must take responsibility too. Obviously there was no disaster plan. It just seems to me that everyone just turned a blind eye. "Oh it won't be that bad. Maybe it will veer off to Mexico."

It wasn't just NO that was hit but a very large area. We concentrate on NO because the news does. Seeing a whole city destroyed is greater news than all those people living in the boondocks. This whole thing is horrible and I am very sad.

May we learn from this that it may never happen again.

 

Sorry, Nakia, but I can't agree. When you downgrade your disaster agency to the point where it can no longer deal with disaster, you are responsible for what you have done. When you, or the people you have entrusted with the task, fail to prepare for trouble when clear and timely warning of its approach has been given, you are responsible. When, after trouble strikes, you continue your vacation until someone shakes you and tells you to look presidential, you are responsible.

It is part of the job to be aware of--or have people you trust be aware of--these things before they happen, is so far as they are predictable. The extent to which you have not done this is the extent to which you have failed in your job. The extent to which you remain comatose when the worst has happened is the measure of your inadequacy.