Aren't There Any True Role Players Left?!

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I was at level twelve as a dual Mage/Theif when Minsc hit his XP cap...I started out BG2 with a newly created character. Don't know how much of a difference all of that makes, only that The total XP that I had actually accumulated was enough to bump up Minsc a full level after I took the XP cap off.

Now, let me explain to you what I mean when I say that fighting the liches in the game was not fun. I'm not saying that the challenge of a good battle is not fun; they are. And if I were playing the real deal with some friends and a DM, it would absolutely rock to take on some of these tougher monsters and quests, because the options are wide open as to how you handle things. Depending on your DM, you can do anything from recruiting help to trying to get a special weapon made, or trying to use a variety of different tactics. When you go up against a lich in BG2, however, your choices are limited, and IMO, it starts to resemble Diablo more than anything. Yes, I use the pause feature to assign commands and so forth, but eventually it becomes a real-time combat mess. Oftentimes, even with party AI on, the characters end up just standing there after they dispatch one enemy while another one is sllicing away at their backs. I have to confess that I really despise real-time combat when controlling a party of characters. In terms of combat, the Wizardy style or even the Realms of Arkania style of party combat is much more to my liking. Guess I'm old-school and prefer the turn based style. But then, if the enemies are pretty weak, like kobolds or gibberlings, I don't mind the real-time combat, because it can be over quickly. Guess I shouldn't complain, then.

I think BG2 is a great game, and as far as any game that has used the D&D license, it is definitely the best. My favorite CRPG, however, even with the outdated graphics and all of its shortcomings, was Daggerfall. The completely open-ended game allowed you complete freedom to do what you wanted, go and do whatever you pleased...you had a huge world to explore, and you had a main story line that you could follow or disregard as you willed. You could make your living as a thief and go from town to town, you could join guilds and go on quests, you could make spells, you even had the chance to deal with the effects of lycanthropy or vampirism and could actually roleplay through that situation as you chose. You could play pretty much indefinitely, and I did. Give me a game with as much flexibility as Daggerfall with as well-written a series of quests as BG2, and I'd never need to buy anything more than add-ons and graphics updates.

I don't know why I wandered into that little rant...guess I'm just wanting more options to be available to me when I'm in a CRPG.

 

first: IMO most people (partially including me for using the XPcap-remover) in CRPGs cheat just because they can. It's the forbidden fruit thing along with curiosity and the temptation of crossing boundaries set by others, whoever they are. There's no control like in P&P (not that I like control that much). I remember running around in the 'Kenku-level' of Eye Of The Beholder-CRPG for hours just to gain some more experience (from respawning monsters), I consider this cheating. Every GM would rip your head off when you start doing such crap as for using such stupid (in P&P terms) 'strategies' as "dragons and cloudkill" I've read on this and other M'boards. Again: no control. Don't get me wrong: If there's one thing about P&P-rpgs it's the freedom of doing things like you want to, but always conform to some basic rules.

second: Just like in P&P and even in real life there are and will be always things too hard to obtain, goals too high to achieve for you at this 'level'. It doesn't need a lot of WIS to realize this. IN CRPG it seems to always be now or never, but in P&P and real life you could always try later when you've grown in knowledge or wits or made preparations (good example: exams, there's always learning or cheating, but for one of 'em there's a risk in it, which isn't in CRPGing. Try imagine this: Somebody starts cheating, the computer realizes this and crashes or starts deinstalling the game...fun eh? (I remember Ultima Underworld 2 ruining the end sequence with the message: You've cheated!...ups!)

third: I know, many people don't have time for P&P, don't find people with same interests or simply don't like P&P at all, namely most 'computer'gamers. But I realize, that most people think playing CRPGs is like roleplaying. I'm sad saying this, but it's not at all. plz no dicussion on this one, stick to the topic...

To end my case it's left to say that I'm also sad to mention that I consider the import-option of Neverwinter Nights a VERY BIG MISTAKE by Bioware...it won't be long till we have Diablo on Fearun

 

You know what burns me up more than all the hacked characters in the world? I have read on boards things like: "My reputation got too high, so I had to go kill an innocent, because I'm having a romance with Viconia, and I don't want her to leave." And the fool is playing a Paladin! That is, to me more against role-playing than all the XP cap removers, and hacked characters put together. And no one flames these people! I say, do what you want in a single player game, as long as you don't ruin other's multi-player games with your hacked characters.

 

Tal et al, where do you stand on reloading? In PnP, NWN and real life there ain't no reloads, but how many people played 'iron man' so if an NPC dies they stay dead? I consider myself to be a roleplayer (with a small r) but confess to reloading as many as 3 times in some encounters.

Elenias, don't worry, if I understand correctly the official 'vaulted' characters will be busted back to 1st level. There's even talk about a 'point buy' system that would make it difficult to have any stat over 15!
Shudder!

 

I re-load sometimes but there's a few conditions on it for me. I will only re-load if *all* my characters die OR if one of my characters died behind a door, table, etc. where I can't get to their bodies... you know, all you get is a highlight of the door and you can't pick up any of the stuff they dropped. I think that's fair.

Mithrilhammer

 

It depends. If he/she dies being gang mauled by beholders while the rest of the party get lost on the route there, yeah I'll reload.
It can be annoying creating a really good 'hardcore' (TM Diablo2) character and watching he/she die in a ridiculous situation, but like you say, play it how you want.

BTW: Surely your party members would be intellegant enough to cart you down to a temple and ressurrect you wouldn't they?

 

heh...
Alright Blackthorne, I'll grant ya that one

 

yeah, no need to reload. after a battle with Firkrag only 2 of 6 my person party was left standing, my Blade and Keldorn. i happened to have a Wand of Ressurection on me which worked well on all the deceased but Mazzy because she was splatered into little chucks. well i just went on with out her even though i had planned on keeping her. too bad.

i also lost Imoen to a backstab of 106 damage towards the end of one game, and i went on without her as well. no need to reload.

that brings up the point of reloading after a low Hit Point roll upon a level up. if i get a low role, i stick with it as i would in PnP. i did restart a game 3 times when i was playing a Blade because my starting hit point rolls were in the lower 30's. thats the only time i have reloaded.

 

I left Firkragg till chapter six when I got out of the under dark and my party was all around level 16-17. I told Firkragg that I will end his menace and then he attacked me killing Mazzy with one breath weapon, I must of drink about 15 healing poitions each for every one of my party members. Only me and Minsc was left and Firkragg was near death. Minsc managed to do a critical hit which killed him. I could not ressurect any of my fallen commrades, they were eaten or something like that. So I went and picked up Edwin, Viconia, Korgan and Imoen. They where all at level 12-13, but still rock after I gave them all the magical Items that was around.

 

How many of you went with your first set of rolls for ability scores? How many didn't adjust them at all? How many restarted the game upon dying with a new character?

 

I think there is a big difference between re-loading the game and cheating.
To start with I don't cheat in RPGs. It just takes the fun out of it. I want a challenge and a sense of accomplishment when I finally win.
If I'm in a fight and my party is killed off, usually "I" die and the game ends. That's why you have a save option.
As far as adjusting my stats during character creation it's called 'arrange to taste'. Yes I rolled three time and took the best set and arranged them. I don't think that cheating. Since I played the entire game with those stats and the character I think I could re-role that 7 ST I got the first time for a fighter. Let's be reasonable.
Unfortunately, no computre RPG can give you the same RP opertunities as real table top, so play by the rules, don't be a twink and enjoy the game.

 

Technically, it's almost as easy to "cheat" (and I've seen it doen more often than not) in a P n P RPG as it is in a CRPG. To me, the difference is whether the cheat enhances the fun for whoever is playing it or not. You get all misty-eyed over having the last member of your party standing victorious over the body of a dragon, while your companians' body parts are strewn around the cavern floor, in need of resurrection? Fine, more power to ya, enjoy yourself. If you like to solve puzzles and interact with characters and figure out plots, but think that battle is just a necessary evil, then use whatever you think you have to to make the game as fun for you as possible. Myself, I like to give myself a bit of an edge, especailly since if my character dies, I have to reload, but if the other characters die, I can just play on and resurrect them. My character still dies, I didn't boost any ability scores or AC or THACO or hit points or artificially add XP; but then again, I also often send in my PC alone against a lot of tough monsters as well.

You know what? It's useless for me to try to defend how I'm choosing to play the game. I know the response is likely to be "you're cheating yourself out of the fun of the game," or something like that, and my response will be something like, "I've played the game before without cheats and I'm having more fun this way," and it'll go back and forth. No one's going to win this argument. I guess it wasn't really meant to be an arguement to begin with; it was just someone complaining about so-called POWER GAMERS. Whatever. You all win. I'm a horrible person who has used Shadow Keeper and removed the XP cap, and you can all pity me for making the game less fun for you, if you were the one playing my game.

OK, I know that was pedantic at best, but someone else said in another thread, it's just a friggin' game! Not only that, but in every post that I've read that had someone "POWER GAMING", it wasn't a multiplayer game either, so what difference does it make to you if someone's using a cheat or not? Hell, they come to message boards like this and ask where things are and how to beat things and so forth, they can buy the cheater's guides or even access the same info online, but where is the flak for those people? Why not give them a load of crap when they ask where they can find the parts of Crom Faeyr and just tell them "keep looking, haha"? Some people here become indignant and raze POWER GAMERS and so forth, and they treat the people they are posting these slams against like crap for something that doesn't affect anyone other than the person playing the game that way. I think that's pretty crappy. Now, some of you have been pretty nice about it, and just say, "I think you're really missing out if you don't at least try to play the game without using editors," and that's great. I'm talking about the people that come in sounding like they think their crap doesn't stink and give people hell because they choose to play the game in a different way than they do. That makes me sick a lot more than whether or not someone's cheating in a damned computer game.

 

In a phrase: Bollocks to it.
A computer can't randomly generate numbers (so i hear) so I think that re-rolling stats is absolutely fine. To Play BGII or whatever like you play a Pnp takes a lot of guts, so I admire the people who do that.

I personally think that if I'm polaying the way the developer intended, I'm alright. Job's a good'un.

 

No, a computer cannot generate a random number. Nothing can generate a random number. Rolling a d6 does not produce a number between 1-6 at exactly equal frequency. The die might be rounded slightly on one corner, the orientation of the die, the power with which it is thrown, and the landing surface have already decided the outcome. Thus, nature never yields a TRUE random number. Random number generators usually use the number of milli-seconds past midnight%Range to determine the number.

This being said, how can the fact that a computer cant generate random numbers justify re-rolling? NOTHING can generate real random numbers, but a RNG comes just as statistically close as dice.

Amon-Ra

 

What I mean is, you'll never get stats of, say all 9s, because there is some slight thought process behind it.

 

Nox and Diablo...they are not power games.
Unless you make them.
I enjoy Diablo because of the music and story. While killing monsters you can imagine
what your characther might say or what
he will answer to the townsfolk although
it's still not the same as BG.
I must admit...it's a bit boring it only
takes place in a Dungeon.
Nox is a good game too.
Whether it is role-play or not is all about
your imagination. But most people I know
only play Diablo to kill things.
When they saw BG they whined:
"It's just like Diablo! Nothing original!
Stolen ideas!"
When they actually played it:
"Too much text! There was not THAT much text
in Diablo!" " The fights suck! It's cheating
to pause the game! Diablo is more realistic!" " The rules suck! When I take off
their armour their armour class goes up!"
Besides that they play the game with lvl.
99 charcathers. And they call me a geek
just because I am a role-player!