Attack on Falluja gets under way

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Ah well...it's good to see they finally flattened that piratesnest. It was a gathering of muslimextremists from all over the world if i'm to believe our media. Every "normal" citizen left that place a long time ago, so the ones that were still around knew what was coming to them.

 

Nobody said that the number of insurgents was large compared to the rest of the Iraqi population. However there are far more suicide bombing, hostage taking, beheadding insurgents then there are rapists of 14-year old girls in the US military. However, if there were only 500 people who were insurgents it is still a rather significant number. If there were 500 people in the US who were actively blowing up government propery it would be deemed a rather 'significant' number of people simply by the crimes they do.

And don't misunderstand yourself into thinking that this makes it true.

Now you're just running on suspicion. If even half of Iraq's population didn't want America to sort this mess out the American troops wouldn't stand a chance. Obviously it's not the case. The insurgents are a minority, if they were not a minority the US wouldn't even bother with Iraq "If you want to blow up your own stuff, fine by us. Just don't come crying to us when you don't have the things you need - like food."

Yet they are all on a rather short leash and will not strike at civilian targets intentionally. The insurgents are just blowing up anything they can get their hands on.

 

Support this. Namely, provide evidence that the rate of paedophilia is higher in the USA than elsewhere.

 

Well I do not like the current regime in Finland but does that mean that I'm going to pick up a gun and start fighting for a change? From what I've seen from the media most Iraqis want the US troops out as soon as possible and the faster the better. It is a issue of pride really since I do not think many in the world even want to be occupied by some other nation even if it was good for them. The insurgents are minority of course.

Agreed, but I do not count suicide bombings as a "barbaric" thing to do as long as the goal is not to hurt the civilian population (blowing busses etc.) and most of the suicide bombings so far have been directed towards police officers, who I do not consider civilian in this case. As for the hostage taking and beheading I'm sure they all come to the attention of the media for some strange reason. I'm also quite sure if we'd be aware of all the war crimes a US soldier has done in Iraq the amount would get quite high too. As joacqin has pointed out in several similar threads; War changes people.

 

Its also interesting to know that:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4014901.stm

"The US military has announced it is looking into whether an American marine in Falluja shot dead a severely wounded Iraqi insurgent at point-blank range."

Between prison abuses, gang-raping 14 yearold girls and now this - What ever happened to chivalry?

 

There is no issue to 'look into'. It was caught on tape from about a yard away. The marine did indeed kill the insurgent in cold blood while the insurgent was offering no resistance. Complete and utter war crime. But it doesn't deserve much publicity - one marine, one crime. He'll be the one punished.

 

Don't you think that these types of war crime are becoming a wee bit too common? Besides the prision abuses were hardly punished. 2 years (and a drop in rank) for rape and physical violence?


I would hate to be 'liberated' by these type of people.

 

The fault lies fully with the people who committed those crimes. Nobody forced them to rape or abuse prisioners. Besides, think of the shame those rapists and abusers now hold. They will be viewed by everyone - world wide - as being the worst America has to offer. They will not be able to get jobs anywhere, their friends will despise them and I can't see their familys getting along well with them either.

I don't think you understand the term 'liberated'. To be 'liberated' means you won't be shot by the liberators but rather the people who you are being liberated from will be the ones getting lead in their squishy places.

 

Actually one of the guys from PA, 'Svits' I think his name was, received a heroes welcome when he returned. I am not sure if he had sexually abused anyone but he was having sex with Lynnie England in front of people prisoners and comardes and smacking prisoners around with blunt objects and his fists.

Thanks for your second paragraph.

 

It is not "one marine, one crime" this type of thing happens as I have said many times previously on a constant basis in war. For every shooting of an unarmed person caught on tape there are a hundred not caught on tape. That is what war is all about! The poor marine pulling the trigger is more or less as much a victim as the poor sod getting shot. It is the people who sent the marine there in the first place and those people who support warfare who are to blame. Much more to blame than the pitiful frightened marine who have been brainwashed by leaders and fear to see Iraqis as less than dogs.

If you think going to war in Iraq was the right thing to do you condone actions such as this, simple as that and trying to claim otherwise is both naive and hypocritical.

 

I'm pretty sure that if it was the other way around, the insurgent in question would happily slit the unarmed marine's throat. No need to make such a big deal about this. Nobody ever claimed war is a picknick.

 

Which makes it alright I suppose?

What about the rapes and sexual abuse? Is that excusable as well, because war isn't a picnic?

If it is, then no offense, but I can't say that what you are saying is nothing short of disgusting.

 

Pac Man yes a terrorist would probably slit the throat of an unarmed marine but I would like to think that the Marine would be the 'better person' and not do such things. Besides I have not heard of any Iraqi insurgents kidnapping females and gang raping them.

A lot of people could learn how to handle terrorists from N.I's past. When the police became as brutal as the terrorists, more people started to become and support the terrorists. It should be treated with talks first before force can be used. When force is necessary use if for the good of people and not as a chance to 'show off' and live out violent fantasies.

 

I wasn't talking about the rape or anything like that, i meant i can understand why a marine, who whitnessed his buddies go down all around him, would shoot and kill an insurgent on sight, even if he's unarmed.

 

I agree...I can understand why a marine would do that too. Does that make it right? I don't think so.

There can be no justification for war crimes, Pac Man, and normally, this would have passed as collateral damage in war, but I am afraid I am seeing a progressive trend in Iraq of these activities, which make me question the integrity of the US presence in Iraq.

 

No, it isn't right, but i can understand where it's coming from. Like it or not, it's a normal human emotion, call it a flaw if you will.

 

Pac Man is saying exactly the same thing I was saying, this is what people do in war and that is why war is more or less never ever the answer to anything as it is 99% of the time more horrible than the absence of war. Even if that means letting a murderous tyrant in power. I say it again, if you think war is the right tool to use to solve a problem then you are supporting actions such as these as they will inevitable occur. Rare the cases when I think it is a price worth paying, in my opinion and knowledge it has only ever occured once in human history and that was the defence and counter attacks against nazi-Germany and to some extent Japan.

 

Well, in the video, the marine's yelling something about how they guy isn't dead, that he's only pretending. So who's to say he's not sitting there with a grenade, hoping to take a marine or two with him if he has the chance. Also, IIRC, someone in their company had just been injured trying to move a booby-trapped body. I'm sure people get a bit jumpy after spending a week shooting at other human beings and being shot at.

Really? Have you lived under a murderous tyrant before?

 

Only that the losses in Fallujah arent that substantial for the US forces. So, the dramatic picture you conjure up: A marine killing a resistance fighter with hundreds of massacred 'buddies' lying all over the place - simply doesnt hold true.

I also heard that only women and children were allowed to flee from the city. Men in the age of 15 to... I think it was 65 were sent back there. According to iraqi reporters, mind you. Makes me think of the other 'rumors'... that there are heaps of dead Iraqis.

Sorry, I dont want to fan the flames - but this all makes me so sick.

 

Define "too common".

How many war crimes have been commited?

Perhaps you could cite a reliable source?