Bush's Ultimatum: War Begins on 3/19/03?

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Well, a few commented, spiced up with quotes from Robin Cook (that man has really held a great speech, also, and earlier, here ) ...

There is no doubt that Iraq has to be dealt with, just how exactly?

The same applies to the US credibility. It doesn't improve the US rep in the middle east when the US work with different standards for nice and evil agressors.

The US promoted Saddam as a threat to press the UN security council to take action, wanting a second resolution while claiming that resolution 1440 is sufficient for action. Then they go to war alone when it becomes evident, that even with all permanent members, they wouldn't find a majority there.
Amazingly, when the inspectors failed to find the desired the "smoking gun", the US simply reduced their aims on a regime change.

Finally, the "who's not with us is against us" attitude, a little diva like, hasn't brought the US much support either.

I heared that recently pupil exchange between german and US schools has stalled because of the US schools wanting to stop it "until they are sure about the US-german relations". Heavens! WTF is wrong with you?

Even with a "just cause" the US have kicked half the world in the face with their clumsy hawkish diplomacy (or lack thereof) from a stance of military superiority. In the essence US foreign policy has been dictated by military premisses since 9/11. That is well understandable to some point but very notable at the same time.

Mind that only one year ago the US enjoyed support of a huge coalition in the war against terror. Look where there are now. Did all the people cowardly leave the US alone in their heroic struggle with Iraq? Hardly.
The US have failed to convince the world that Saddam had anything to do with the war against terror.
The world hasn't turned against the US, rather the US have turned the world themselves. Foreign politics about Iraq has been made by the pentagon in the last year and soldiers make poor diplomats.
IMHO that's something to consider when thinking about the US and the ROW issues. Just my two cents.

 

That pretty much sums up the American view of the war.

 

That pretty much sums up preemtive stikes. So when is the US going to invade my country?

 

Blackhawk -- That has pretty much been Isreal's attitude also, and how safe are its streets?

[ March 20, 2003, 08:01: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]

 

And now the war has begun and Bush continue to play god. F*CK YOU BUSH!! A group of students in our school are going to have a strejk against this. Save teh civilians, get Bush.

 

Chandos the Red -
Ever since Israel started actively hunting down and destroying terrorists, the streets have been quite a bit safer. The cowardly are the slaves of evil. One should never act out of emotion, but never should one become timid.

Khazraj -
I don't know what state you are from, but I doubt it is controled by a dictator who actively murders, tortures and oppresses its people and actively supports terrorism.

The United States has never gone to war with a fellow democracy.

[ March 20, 2003, 08:04: Message edited by: Blackhawk ]

 

I agree, Blackhawk, we should hunt down the real terrorist -- that would be Osama, remember him? I do, and I will applaud Bush once he nails that bastard, if he ever does. But killing Iraqis women and children who have nothing to do with what happened to us last year in New York will do nothing but inspire more hatred against our country.

 

Agreeing with Ivanji. F*CK YOU BUSH.


I will mourn for their deaths and no one forbids me to do so.

 

*joins the chosrus* *Edits the word away, for I shoul've known better but the intent is still there* you Bush!

I hate it, and I mourn it...

(silence of the elves....)

[ March 20, 2003, 12:25: Message edited by: Arabwel ]

 

Settle down kids, yelling "**** you Bush" is just as stupid as yelling "Pave France" or "**** Iraq!". It doesn't contribute anything of worth to a discussion.

[ March 20, 2003, 11:08: Message edited by: Ragusa ]

 

I agree, yelling offences to Bush doesn't help anything.

Would you rather wait until Saddam gasses Iran or even 'worse' America. Now I don't know if Bush is waging this war for the right reasons but I agree with him if it comes to 'doing something'.

Saddam is threatening freedom and rights and that can't go unpunished. Even if the UN would have persuaded saddam to disarm all the WMS, we would get the same story in about 5 to 10 years.

I would rather see a Bush invading Iraq, ellimenating (sp?) Saddam and his sons and perhaps bring a democracy/freedom to the country then to go repeat this entire debacle at the UN again in the future.

War may suck but in this case I see it as neccesary.

 

Well, me too, but still 'F*CK YOU BUSH'. And Arabwel is not a kid. Ivanji either and I don't think myself a kid either. At least on the psychological meaning. So there.

 

Sorry, Ragusa, merely venting...

You know, I am thinking of a bloody demonstration of hating this war. Hating the bloodshed. Feeling the pain.

I am seriously contemplating making one cut for each day of the war. And, taking pictures and putting them online... Scars of Remembrance.

And I thought I was off the bloody thing... guess not.

(Feeling bad, should work not surf... don't like this at all)

 

I apologize, Taluntain... *hangs head in shame* I think I am taking this to the extremes because of my current condition of mania + lack of sleep (in the last 50+ hours less than three hours of sleep) lack of taking my medication and the caffeine overdose I am on. But it does not excuse my behaviour....

Hell, if Bush refuses to play by the rules, WE at least should.

(a very ashamed and morbid mourner...)

 

I am sorry too. *hangs her head in shame as well*

No more that sctuff from me.

(Another morbid and depressed mourner)

 

Now it all is happening, we better go worying about after. Protests won´t help, neither screaming bad words.

This war is pretty "necessary" (if you want to save the world that is ), but I ask you to try to understand, even all the people you see as evvviillllll.
I understand Saddam´s (power corrupts, can happen to anybody) actions and Bush´s, they where doing what they thought was best.

Maybe the war is about oil, so what? If the oilsupply ran out, the price of bread would dubble. Somehow, we need it..

"Innocents" will die, of course, never seen a war without innocent dieing, they are at least not targeting at them


But heck I´m just a 17yo kid who has never seen real violence, what the heck do I know??

 

Here is what makes me bloody furious: It's the deliberate and stubborn blindness of a lot of US-Americans who readily believe all the lies which were and are told about the reasons for this war, which included presenting forged documents before the security council of the UN. I always thought that it is in the blood of citizens in every democratic country to mistrust everything a politican says.

I'm also very angry about an US-administration that is daring to tell these outrageous lies, putting fear into the hearts of their people for no reason except for increasing their nation's power.

I know, the US people are terribly misinformed by their media, but the most of them aren't even asking questions.

[ March 20, 2003, 17:47: Message edited by: Fabius Maximus ]

 

Arabwel,

Why don't you read this before you go cussing out the US President.

(sorry I don't have a link to it, if someone finds one, send it to me and I will add it and delete all the text)

by Tony Parsons for the "Daily Mirror"... September 11, 2002

One year ago, the world witnessed a unique kind of broadcasting - the mass murder of thousands, live on television. As a lesson in the pitiless cruelty of the human race, September 11 was up there with Pol Pot's Mountain of Skulls in Cambodia, or the skeletal bodies stacked like garbage in the Nazi concentration camps. An unspeakable act so cruel, so calculated and so utterly merciless that surely the world could agree on one thing-nobody deserves this fate. Surely there could be consensus: The victims were truly innocent, the perpetrators truly evil.

But to the world's eternal shame, 9/11 is increasingly seen as America's comeuppance. Incredibly, anti-Americanism has increased over the last year.

There has always been a simmering resentment to the USA in this country [England]; too loud, too rich, too full of themselves, and so much happier than Europeans--but it has become an epidemic. And that seems incredible to me. More than that, it turns my stomach.

America is this country's greatest friend and our staunchest ally. We are bonded to the US by culture, language and blood. A little over half a century ago, around half a million Americans died for our freedoms, as well as their own. Have we forgotten so soon? And exactly a year ago, thousands of ordinary men, women and children--not just Americans, but from dozens of countries--were butchered by a small group of religious fanatics. Are we so quick to betray these victims? What touched the heart about those who died in the Twin Towers and on the planes, was that we recognized them. Young fathers and mothers, somebody's son and somebody's daughter, husbands, wives and children, some unborn. And these people brought it on themselves?

Their nation is to blame for their meticulously planned slaughter?

These days you don't have to be some dust-encrusted nut job in Kabul or Karachi or Finsbury Park to see America as the Great Satan. The anti-American alliance is made up of self-loathing liberals who blame the Americans for every ill in the Third World, and conservatives suffering from power-envy, bitter that the world's only superpower can do what it likes without having to ask permission. The truth is that America has behaved with enormous restraint since September 11.

Remember... remember... remember... the gut-wrenching tapes of weeping men phoning their wives to say, "I love you," before they were burned alive.

Remember those people leaping to their deaths from the top of burning skyscrapers. Remember the hundreds of firemen buried alive. Remember the smiling face of that beautiful little girl who was on one of the planes with her mum. Remember... remember...

And realize that America has never retaliated for 9/11 in anything like the way it could have.

So a few al-Al-Qaeda tourists got locked up without a trial in Camp X-ray?

Pass the Kleenex. So some Afghan wedding receptions were shot up after they merrily fired their semiautomatics in a sky full of American planes? A shame but maybe next time they should stick to confetti. AMERICA could have turned a large chunk of the world into a parking lot. That it didn't is a sign of strength. American voices are already being raised against attacking Iraq--that's what a democracy is for.

How many in the Islamic world will have a minute's silence for the slaughtered innocents of 9/11? How many Islamic leaders will have the guts to say that the mass murder of 9/11 was an abomination? When the news of 9/11 broke on the West Bank, those freedom-loving Palestinians were dancing in the street. America watched all of that--and America didn't push the button. We should thank the stars that America is the most powerful nation in the world. I still find it incredible that 9/11 did not provoke all-out war. Not a "war on terrorism." A real war.

The fundamentalist dudes are talking about "opening the gates of hell" if America attacks Iraq. Well, America could have opened the gates of hell like you wouldn't believe. The US is the most militarily powerful nation that ever strode the face of the earth. The campaign in Afghanistan may have been less than perfect and the planned war on Iraq may be misconceived.

But don't blame America for not bringing peace and light to these wretched countries. How many democracies are there in the Middle East, or in the Muslim world? You can count them on the fingers of one hand - assuming you haven't had any chopped off for minor shoplifting. I love America, yet America is hated. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle. But I would rather be a dog in New York City than a Prince in Riyadh.

Above all, America is hated because it is what every country wants to be, rich, free, strong, open, optimistic. Not ground down by the past, or religion, or some caste system. America is the best friend this country ever had and we should start remembering that. Or do you really think the USA is the root of all evil? Tell it to the loved ones of the men and women who leaped to their death from the burning towers. Tell it to the nursing mothers whose husbands died on one of the hijacked planes, or were ripped apart in a collapsing skyscraper. And tell it to the hundreds of young widows whose husbands worked for the New York Fire Department.

To our shame, George Bush gets a worse press than Saddam Hussein. Once we were told that Saddam gassed the Kurds, tortured his own people and set up rape-camps in Kuwait.

Remember... remember... September 11th. One of the greatest atrocities in human history was committed against America. No, do more than remember:

Never forget.