Child-Rapist Priest John Geoghan killed in prison

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Puh-lease!! Where did you get THAT rumor?! That has got to be the MOST ridiculous thing in the world and I live in MA where Cardinal Law was moving the preists about and STILL no one suggested something quite as stupid as that. The Pope didn't have direct contact with the preists and didn't have anything to do with moving them about(so far as we now and I desperately hope and believe he didn't -- especially since John Paul II is one of the best Popes we've had) And here's another point, the preists and bishops involved were AMERICAN. If there WAS any talk about the US going to war with the Vatican, it CERTAINLY wasn't a rumor started by ANYONE in the government for even THEY are more rational than that. So get your homocidal urges under control and take a quick look at reality please.

Hmmm I just realized how completely offensive that was. (Though you'll note I am leaving it up) I apologize Blackhawk, you're normally quite rational about things but that was really quite a ridiculous statement which you probably already regret all things considered. So, I'm sorry. From now on, I'll try to be slightly less emotional and offensive about things.... Try being the operative word.

But back to Geoghan, they hadn't finished trying him. He wasn't finished being convicted of his crimes as I earlier explained. There were GOING to be more trials and he wasn't just going to be there for a mere 9 years. (See my earlier post.)

And as for him not being defrocked, church doctrine won't allow it, which is something they need to change and as a Catholic I REALLY hope they do.

Also, with the moving about of the preists, there was some major political issues involved in that. Mostly the preists felt invincible; this has been something that has happened throughout the history of the Church, bishops and preists always get to feeling that they're better than humans and when proven that they ARE human and can make some SERIOUSLY bad mistakes (and be evil) they tend to panic and become afraid that they'll lose their status. And this is politics. And I've said it before and I'll say it again; no good has ever come from religion mixing in politics. None. Ever. And this is just one more example of why.

On that note though, many of the MA churchs have tried to fix this preistly belief that they're better than the rest of the world by demanding that ALL preists be involved with giving sermons, contributing to the community more and a lot less of the high and mighty hiding away and studying all alone. (This, I feel is a very good thing though long in the coming.) And ironically, a lot of the younger priests have been pointing out this problem for ages; (wish I could find you that article about it... it was a good one, I'll go look for it) it's just that now they HAVE to fix it. hehehe. Proof that good can come of evil (God always has a back-up plan and can make anything go his way...) hehehehe

 

I think that churches in such cases are often driven by the slogan: What should not be, can not be.

 

Hmm, good point Laches.
So what I meant is that legally Geoghan is now not guilty.

 

IF the wardens are ever charged/convicted of anything, so should be the Church hierarchy - as Chevalier pointed out early in this thread. The fact that a blind eye was turned to this man's behavior for so long - not to mention any others' - is abhorrent. Geoghan's activities are only a symptom of a much larger problem, IMO. I've done enough Root Cause Analysis and industrial accident investigations to know that few unfortunate events are true accidents, but generally have someone's laziness or greed at their core.

I don't recall the specifics of the proposal that the American bishops had for "cleaning house," but I do remember being outraged that the Pope shot most of it down as being too harsh when it was really nothing more than a good start. Just what was he trying to protect - his flock or the Church as a stand-alone entity? Priorities, please, Your Holiness.

As Yago stated in another thread, politics and religion are inseparable.

 

Yes, and Swiss Guard parachutes took Pentagon by surprise yesterday morning.

Shh... Victims are victims, but imagine yourself in the shoes of a decent priest prosecuted in haste without proper trial under canon law on the basis of an allegation. Separated from his 'sheep', barred from saying the mass which is the core of his entity and his carreer broken even if he eventually proves innocent, let alone if only not guilty ('this time'). I've read about Geoghan and similar guys quite a lot and about the harassed priests a bit too. I can't provide any names (I'm not home, it's a miracle that I connected here at this speed after only 10 tries), but among others was the chief canon lawyer of Boston diocese. Vatican has to investigate the matter properly and not just heed to someone's or some group's 'crucify him!' whims. Truth is priority here, not public opinion and the mood of the crowd - the latter for example leads to situation like Geoghan's one, in this case reversed. Is that any better than the actual original dealing with Geoghan's case?

One should also notice, as was said above, that all the bishops involved were American and the case didn't leave American church. Vatican was not involved in this and similar cases. Actually, an end was put to those when they finally reached Vatican... as it was for example with one archbishop here (the archbishop kept molesting how they're called... priest-to-be-students... any victim who said something was dutifully scorned and condemned and they covered him until Pope's lay friends from youth times reached him and had a talk, after which the nuntio had a talk with the archbishop).

 

IIRC, the proposal had to do more with how to protect priests in between accusation and proof, and how to prevent proven molesters from continuing to prey on youth, than it did with simply clearing out the supposed bad apples immediately upon accusation. I still find it ironic that the Pope wasn't willing to take measures that the American bishops devised for themselves. You'd have to think that they're the experts on what's good for the Church in America. So I ask again - exactly what was/is the Pope trying to protect?

 

This is slightly off topic but I just had to reply to something Chevalier wrote earlier. He said that he thought that there were more histories of molestation in the US than in other Catholic areas and that it was due to the higher level of 'freedom' they have. By freedom I guess he means the fact that large part of the US society has started to get the idea that it sounds kinda silly to believe that you burn for an eternity in hell because you like people of the same gender or think that is right and proper to have sex before marriage.

I do not think that is the case at all. The Catholic church have a millenia long history of molesting boys, all over the world. In most places it is seen as somethng more or less normal, almost part of what being a choirboy is all about. The only reason that the priests got caught in the US is that the children actually finally worked up the courage to come out and tell what happened and that some of them were listened to. I am fairly sure that if a child told its parents that the priests pressed his dick up its arse the kid would get a smack down for telling lies and that the good noble priest would never ever do a thing like that and the kids know this which is why they dont say anything in the first place. Same goes for South America and even Ireland.

 

Well, two things here. I believe that there have been thousands -- millions -- of decent priests in history who have done nothing but good in their communities. The actions of some disgrace the noble work of the many.
That said, though, rape is a horrible crime and one of the things that makes it so is that it is so difficult to get accurate statistics -- many victims are too afraid to come forward. In that sense, my Swedish friend is bang on.

 

Not to worry, I don't take much personally.

As far as the "ACT OF WAR" statement is concerned, I am surprised how many poster thought I was advocating the invasion of Rome!

Far from the case, during the beginning of the scandal, protesters outside the Boston Diocese were making that point. Not so much as an advocation of military action, but to put into perspective the evil committed by the Vatican.

It is profound.

I really am disappointed in the Vatican. Actually, the better word would be "disgusted". I find it rather ironic and sick that a couple priests in South America were excommicated by the Church because they dared to be women and teach scripture. Then, at the same time, hide and protect those who raped and molested children.

Of course, Boston is not the only victim in this scandal. Even in Sacramento, there is a priest who fled the United States for parts unknown.

[ September 04, 2003, 10:26: Message edited by: Blackhawk ]

 

Firstly I would like to say ick, ugh, yuk.

I think that this priest should have been tried and convicted for all his crimes along with all those complicit in allowing him to evade justice for so long. After adequate compensation had been obtained from the Catholic Church for his crimes then the phsyco should have been let loose to kill him. To be realistic though, for some of his victims I am sure that each day that they get to spend on this earth in the knowledge that he is dead and gone, is worth more than the pittance that years of haggling and litigation will squeeze out of the Vatican Bank.

I hate this thread. I hate that this thread even exists. But there are things that are better out in the open. One of those things is the simple warning;

Never leave your children alone with priest, a Brother or anyone who is not a licensed childminder. If your children are taught by a religious sect then you had better teach them the Facts Of Life before Fr. Feelgood does. Assume priests are dangerous.

You may be asking what use are priests if you can’t trust them. Well, what use are they even if you can? They protect the evil and allow the innocent to be hurt. They don’t believe anything that they say, why should you?

[ November 30, 2003, 23:03: Message edited by: Bluin ]

 

I could ask you the same. By the way, why the Pope?

Stick to facts, please. And two thousand years is hardly 'milennia long history' even if we assume child molestation present from the very beginning to present with no interruption ever. Can't we just mention facts, raise questions and exchange answers and not launch or fend off attacks? Getting emotional is one thing, but bending facts to emotions isn't healthy.

 

millennia = A span of one thousand years

 

I think that compassion is the best way to let go of pain, revenge never heals. Of course I've never had anything like this done to me so I can't really put forward much of an opinion.

 

Chev, I would argue that when dealing with an issue so painful, it is next to impossible not to bend facts to emotion a little bit.

I agree that compassion is the best way to go, but that is a hard thing to ask of someone who has been sexually violated. I have not had such done to me, but I can fully understand and sympathize with the people who have a hard time coming to grips with the fact that someone entered their body without permission, love or any other positive emotion.

Going back to the issue of Father John himself, in a sense it is kind of sad that he is dead in that his victims cannot now confront him -- for their sakes, perhaps it would have been better had he lived so they could heal more fully. Then again, maybe such a confrontation would not have helped the healing process; I don't know for sure.

 

I cannot put any statistics for you here Chev but you must have been blind if you havent heard all too many stories as the one Bluin told us here. Or are you of the opinion that they are made up to discredit the catholic church? I do not claim that all or even a large percentage of the Catholic clergy are child molesters nor that it is solely among catholics but being an altarboy or in a catholic school has quite often meant that you had to suffer the interest of some extremely sexually frustrated men.

 

Um, no. Milennia: The span of thosands of years

Millennium: A span of one thousand years

Sorry to nitpick.

Although I must say that I think that those wishing to discredit the catholic curch are using something already existing, in a manner that may very well be exagerrated.

Or words to that effect.

 

Because the Pope is the head of the Roman Catholic Church, and was presented by the news media as the person who vetoed the cleaning-house proposal that the American bishops put forth. Now, maybe His Holiness was simply acting as a mouthpiece for a decision made by his advisors, but remember where the buck stops.

 

Good. I'm glad he got killed. In nine years, he would get out, and assault more children.

My only wish was that he served his time, had all nice years of rough anal servicing, and was killed the day before his release.

Anyone that preys on children doesn't deserve to walk the earth. Not only did this guy prey on children, but he did it in the form of a trustworthy spokesman of god, a spiritual and physical father figure. He wasn't a sneaky guy in a trenchcoat. He was trusted and respected.

He got what he deserved.

 

A good chil-molester is a dead child-molester, that's what I always say.

 

@LKD, joacqin... and others

I suppose you read my post too quickly. I did not even touch the issue of compassion or dealing with pain one way or another. Just of presenting facts as facts and opinions as opinions. My own views are irrelevant here.

@Rallymama: well, have you read anything on the house cleaning that American bishops actually made? I'm against that, too. I would be surprised if the Pope weren't. Everyone in any sort of trial has the right to hear the charge and defend himself, let alone confronting evidence.

[ September 09, 2003, 20:08: Message edited by: chevalier ]