Connecticut Massacre

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All this talk of "if there were notes guns, then people would make bombs instead" is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. I wish America could hear just how silly they sound to the rest of the world.

Taluntain and Barmy Army are making complete sense.

Actually, no, the dumbest thing I've heard is the excuse that "we need guns to protect ourselves just in case an evil dictatorship tried to take over the people".

 

It's really not. I'm still completely convinced that the vast majority of these attacks in the US are driven more on the fact that the people committing them KNOW they are going to be famous/infamous because of the way the media here works. I think if not for that then most, not all, but most, would probably commit suicide instead. While still horrible, it's not nearly as.

There are many reasons for guns...self protection, protection from government, hunting, sport, etc. I sincerely doubt any nation on the planet would set foot in the US...because they'd get torn apart by those same gun nuts, and unlike the middle east, there's going to be alot more people hitting what they aim at.

 

You're not seriously suggesting that having loads of gun nuts running around is a good thing because it improves homeland security are you? Wow.

 

As a reason to run out and by a gun? Hell no. Merely a side effect. I don't think we should be like "hey let's all run out and get guns to improve national defense!"...but they're already here, we already have them so...

I'm all for improving safety with guns, locking them down to keep them out of the hands of children, the mentally unstable, criminals etc. The biggest problem I have with most of the proposed laws and "fixes" that I've seen from politicians is that they're pretty much all seriously uninformed and really aren't going to do anything. They're emotional responses to the latest case of a lunatic going off. I've seen too many studies and too many statistics, going back several decades, proving that at the very least guns do not increase violent crime, or suicides...and in many cases those studies can prove a positive correlation between increased gun ownership and decreased violent crime rates. From the Harvard study already linked here :

And if you really want to dig into some statistics, read More Guns, Less Crime, or The Bias Against Guns by John Lott and David Mustard...they have reams of statistical evidence on the subject.

Suicide rates never seem to be affected much...Lets be honest - if you are serious enough to blow your brains out with a gun, you are serious enough to get a rope and find a balcony, or take a bottle full of vicodin, or use any number of the thousands of ways you could commit suicide. The availability of a gun isn't going to change that...it might just become the tool because it's most likely going to be a faster death.

 

Good point.

Did anyone ever notice how many of these crazy morons who go on the kill sprees using guns off themselves at the end? Easy to do with a gun, usually with no pain, as they are cowards. I think it's a little harder to do with a bomb. IMO they are afraid they might not kill themselves when using the bomb, but only maim themselves and be in incredible amounts of pain. Then they would have to take accountability for their actions. It's not the only reason they choose guns more often than bombs or other types of devices, but I am sure it is a large factor in their choice of using guns.

 

While I agree with much of what you wrote, how can we say that we haven't gained some security from the laws that went into effect following 9/11? I mean, maybe I'm being shortsighted, but I do not recall any instances since then of a plane being hijacked and flown into a skyscraper. Unless you're merely saying that most Americans don't ride planes on a daily basis and so they weren't at risk of being hijacked in the first place.

Just to point out, I do not view the people that live in my neighborhood as my brothers, but I don't view them as an object to be exploited either. I think there's a bit of a false dichotomy here.

I don't know how that is even possible. Many US cities are built on collections of smallers communities. And I'm talking big cities, with Chicago being perhaps the best example. You could have diffierent communities within a few city blocks of each other with vastly different soico-economic factors at work. How are these people supposed to view each other as equals and be part of a social cohesion if the only thing they have in common is they live in the same general area?

That I complete agree with. I don't think banning guns of any type will reduce the suicide rate at all. In fact, most suicides by women aren't done with a gun, so there's plenty of evidence to do exactly as you suggest. By the same token, I don't think anyone is listing suicide as a reason to ban guns.

 

I don't think I've seen that opinion here...but I've seen it on the news a couple of times(I figured it was being mentioned quite a bit because the extent of my news watching is done in a lobby - maybe 30 minutes a week). I mostly mentioned it because it falls in with gun-related deaths...depending on the statistics source. That can really skew the stats.

 

I was going to post this in a separate thread, but I thought it was appropriate here in relation to LKD's comments about societal cohesion up the thread. I will quote the related section here in its entirety rather than edit him down.

Now, the related story - related only in the context of values as referenced by LKD, not circumstances.

In Ohio USA, there was apparently a recent gang rape of a high school girl by members of a high school football team. Two members of the team have been charged with rape, as far as I can tell, while no others have due to a lack of evidence. Apparently an entity known as 'Anonymous' (no idea who or what that is) threatened to expose additional involved members of the team due to the alleged defense of the football team and disparagement of the victim by high school football boosters and others unless a public apology was issued (they having no authority to bring additional charges obviously). No apology came, and so a cell phone video was released of team members discussing the rape and other delightful insights into their lack of ... simple humanity?

At any rate, it's hard not to see LKD's connection of moral bankruptcy and atrocities when you read and view this information.

Here is a story on the situation: Anonymous leaks video of Steubenville high schoolers joking about gang rape

And here is the referenced video:



Warning: the video is offensive, with comments such as the girl being "deader than Trayvon Martin," etc.

The most disturbing thing to me about it all is that it would be foolish to assume this sort of mentality is isolated to a few deranged 'cells' scattered throughout the country/world/whatever. Likewise the 'football is king!' sensibility that still apparently persists despite Penn State and which seems to inform the defense of the players and slander of the victim.

 

Amending the Constitution is not easy. First it has to pass Congress then it goes to the states to be voted on. 2/3 of the states must ratify the amendment. I am going to make a general statement here that could be wrong but it is probable that the western states and Alaska would not pass it. The process usually I believe takes about 3 or 4 years.

The Federal government cannot ban guns although they can regulate them through various means. The NFA a lengthy document not easily understood by us non-lawyers does this.

Under our constitution certain rights are given to the Federal Governmen and those not specifically covered belong to the states. This has been watered down some in recent years but by no means eliminated.

Each state has its own gun laws. I have done research on this subject. The problem will not be easily solved in this country.

I fear it will take something even worse than this incident to bring about a ban on weapons throughout the nation.

 

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/alex-jones...nn-rant-on-gun-control-113924767.html#KfBrKa6



Isn't he like the like the best poster boy that the anti gun lobby could have ever hoped for?

Edit: by 'he' I mean that psycho Alex Jones

 

I just thought that it be worth pointing out to our American friends on here, that this guy is the image of America around the world. For many of us the TV is the only forum that we have to see Americans, people like this wanker always seem to be able to get on TV and since US TV is heavily exported around the world this is the image we see of the 'typical' American. Loud, obnoxious, ill educated, uninformed, aggressive, overweight, gun toting bullies.

 

Wow. What a scary nutter. I seriously think he needs to be confined. It sounds like he could easily be the next Timothy McVeigh.

 

If there's ever gonna be a film about Alex Jones, I know just the right guy to cast: James Belushi.

 

Good grief.

'Sandy Hook Truthers' claim Newtown a hoax

 

I have zero respect for this sort of nonsense.

 

Every atrocity has conspiracy theory nuts that claim the govt. did it and covered it up. As ignorant as I think that is, I don't even blink anymore when I see it.

 

And think, this is the mental capacity of a group of people who are allowed to own guns.

 

Worse still ... they're allowed to reproduce.