E=mc²? Einstein goes the way of Darwin: Conservapedia's war on Relativity.

Remove all ads!

Oh, you noticed that I simplified?

 

I'm not sure where you're going with this LKD. As far as I'm aware, of the 10 Commandments, only two of them are illegal - the don't kill and don't steal ones.

 

I would argue the "bear false witness" one relates to things like perjury, fraud, and such like.

Let me state my position another way. Today we have (in Western Democracies, anyhow) a legal system that is divorced from religious overtones. Certain acts are deemed illegal not because they offend God but because they do harm to fellow citizens of the society (hence the term "anti-social") But it was not always so. For several hundred years religious groups hald a fair degree of judicial power. Older legal codes had lots of religious overtones. While we have excised those overtones (and it's taken a while in some cases*) the influence of those religiously based laws is still there.

I am not arguing for a return to theocracy. I am saying that the influence of religion exists. To close ones eyes to it and say "lalala it's not there because I dont' like it" is not a very useful behaviour.

*case in point, here in Edmonton in the 70s and 80s we had all sorts of troubles over the Lord's Day Laws, which prohibited a lot of businesses from being open on Sundays. It was determined that the law was too religious in nature and that societal damage from Sunday shopping was not indicated. So the laws were struck down in favor of a more secular approach

 

I always thought the "bear false witness" meant don't lie. Lying, unless it takes place specifically in the context of a certain place (like a courtroom for example), is not illegal.

Oh, I'm not saying that there is no connection between our legal system as far as possessing some elements of Christianity - I'm just saying that those who are implying that it had a large impact are overstating their case.

We had them in the US as well, although they were referred to as "Blue Laws" (for reasons that I do not know).

 

De-lurking to say that blue was a piece of 18th century slang referring to rigid moral codes and those who followed them. Re-lurking now.

 

Perjury only applies in an "official" proceeding. Otherwise, they would have to put half of corporate America in jail for phony advertizing claims (but maybe you are onto something here).

I don't believe that's true. I believe that there are plenty of religious overtones, but the core of any law is secular. Your perjury law is a good example: The core of the law is that if you make an official statement about someone that is not true, you are guilty of a crime; the overtones are that you are indeed engaging in bearing "false witness." People understand that it is unethical to bear false witness because of relgious teaching and basic ethics, but the crime is committed against the state as well as the victim.

You always run-up against the same problem with this line of thinking: whose religion? If you have a Christian community, like say, the Puritans, in 1725 Boston, there isn't much of problem on the face of things, but in a pluralistic society, you have some real problems.

Everyone else is just trying to be pragmatic with problems of application and fairness of the Law.

Dude, you are even more political than I am. This is just basic "Walmart society, USA," stuff. Big business has the muscle to move these laws out of the way. In the old days we had those "Blue laws" here in Texas. But nevertheless, the Baptists never stood a chance against the big box stores being open on Sunday. This is pure business delight. Big business wants to sell on Sunday and people want to buy on Sunday -- Holy Rollers lose that one.

 

Holy crap, I swear I saw Daisuke and then he just disappeared

As to Blue laws, yes they were very puritanical. Here in MA we still have some remnants of them (liquor stores need permission from the police to open on Sunday and all bars/drinking establishments close at 1am). When I was a teenager, they had a good side and a bad side. The good side was that if you worked on Sunday you got paid time and a half, the bad side was that almost every store was closed and there was almost nothing to do on Sundays because you were supposed to be in Church.

 

Excellent case in point. I know you are Jewish, Snook. Do Jewish peope go to church on Sunday? Many probably do not. So should you not be allowed to open your business on Sunday because that's the big Christian church day?

 

Oh, I don't for a second think that when religious groups have judicial power it's a good thing. It's often the DOMINANT religious group that holds power, and the other groups get hosed over. Hell, even if everyone is ostensibly the same, religiously speaking, you can have some serious problems when Judicial power is linked to religious might. See my favorite play "The Crucible"!

Once again, I'm not saying that the influence should be present today. I am saying that it existed in the past and was a factor in what we have today.

 

*Gasp!* They must be a bunch of liberals.

On a more serious note, sorry for the improper term, DMC.


[No worries, I was just playing with you -dmc]