Evil party questions

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Let's just say a certain gravedigger was not as cooperative as he might have been. And then Viconia joined the party, and of course my Rep wasn't very high to begin with.

I have now made several generous donations to the temple of Ilmater in preparation of future shopping sprees. I'd only rarely do this when playing a Good party. Interesting, eh?

 

Evil does not mean psychopathic killer.

 

Somebody pointed out the Frostreaver axe in Nalia's home. I should point out that the Stonefire axe is just as good. In some ways it's better since you can get it before attacking the trolls at Nalia's, and it will finish them off. Although the game doesn't really do elemental weaknesses like in IWD2, so the two are pretty equal, and you can switch when dealing with something that is immune to the extra elemental damage of one.
I find that I use them as my primary melee axes for all of Shadows of Amn.
The other axes I use are the returning throwing axes. Specifically tne from the sewers and the better axe you get in chapter 3. I can't recall where you get it when siding with the thieves, but you get it during the attack on the docks shipment when siding with Bodhi. Sorry, been a while since I played and I'm siding with Bodhi this time.

 

The returning throwing axe +3 can only be obtained if you side with Bodhi.

 

I agree with Stonefire. If you're doing Nalia's quest first, it makes sense to plop down the 3K gold or so it will cost you to purchase it. It's the most efficient means of killing trolls until you get Frostreaver. I have made dual axe wielding characters, and those are the two they use throughout SoA.

 

I don't see why I would pay 3-5k gold (depending on Reputation) to kill trolls when I have a bow and a mage. Even if I ran out of meteors, the 20 fire arrows I got from Captain Arat would be enough to finish off all the trolls in the keep.

 

Just a convenience thing. I don't like having to pause to switch arrows every troll fight, because you don't have enough to use fire arrows constantly. You also find acid arrows in one of the first few rooms, and they work too, so if you don't mind doing that, there are certainly enough arrows in the keep itself to get you through. I agree that unless you plan on continuing to use Stonefire after the keep, it wouldn't make sense to buy it.

 

I always buy Stonefire early in the game if I have an Axe wielder in the party. It's cheap, it's a +3 weapon and causes fire damage. So for the early game it's NICE! As I usually release Hendak's fury to start the Slaver's series of quests as my first matter of business. And the De'Arnise Keep is usally next up. So the axe is perfect, especially for Korgan or my axe-wielding PC early game.

 

As for the $5K price, this thread is about an EVIL party. At some point you should get your thief hopped up on a potion of mind focusing, a potion of perception, and a potion of master thievery (and probably an oil of speed so he can get everywhere before the master thievery wears off), then have him go on a stealing spree and loot all the good stuff from the stores of Amn. Get all those high level spells and magical equipment for free.

Only Ribald's store and the two bonus merchants are immune to this crime spree. The other scroll merchant in the Adventurer's Mart is fair game.


Although I'll admit the crime spree is more for a chaotic party than an evil one, even a lawful evil party would probably do that.

 

Update...

This party takes some getting used to, and it doesn't help that it keeps changing. First I kicked out Jaheira after she made me choose between her and Viconia. I was never too impressed with Jaheira, but now that she's gone I kind of miss her since Viconia is now my only healer and Korgan my only tank. And then Yoshimo betrayed me, but at least I got lil' sis back. She's pretty good with locks and traps, which is great since I just dualled and I need to focus on stealth.

Korgan fails to impress me. He's just a dumb fighter, and the immunities granted by his Berserk are just about his only trick worth mentioning.

Viconia equally fails to impress. The magic resistance is nice and she gets tSkeleton Warriors quickly, but she's almost useless otherwise. At least Anomen had 2 attacks per round, and if I wanted my Cleric to hang back and casts spells I'd be much better off with Aerie.

Edwin is alright, lots of spells. He recently took on the role of healer; he can cast Project Image four times per day now that he's level 14, and that's 40 uses of the Rod of Resurrection.

Speaking of the Rod of Resurrection... this party needs it. Not many deaths, but people simply take way too much damage. Bad AC, low hit points, not enough stoneskins. There are battles where Edwin does nothing but cast Project Image and then have his image use the rod almost every round.

I was planning something like that, except with just Potions of Master Thievery. Seems their effect stacks.

Turned out I never needed to. Careful planning got me all the stuff I needed, with coin to spare.

 

Korgan's low AC and bad ranged THAC0 has always been a sore point. He's a terribly good fighter otherwise. I suggest you do the Unseeing Eye quest as soon as you can, so you can use the Gloves of Dexterity to boost his dex to 18. Coupled with Viconia's support spells (Protection from Evil, etc) and heals he'll become much more difficult to kill. The questline also gives you the Belt of Constitution, which you can use to boost Viconia's con to 18. After that she'll become something like the polar opposite of Anomen, 1 attack per round but magic resistant and difficult to kill. Viconia's Turn Undead is not as useful in the unmodded game, since you'll have to manually destroy the undead she controls while Anomen's just blows them apart. In modded games though suddenly finding yourself in control of (usually) improved undead can give you an edge in difficult fights.

Viconia starts at a higher level than Anomen, 1 or 2 levels in my games usually. For early game this means she can summon Aerial Servants (which are really powerful) much earlier than any other cleric. Since you're in the Underdark though NPC XP/levels should have evened out, which is probably why you feel that Anomen's 2 attacks per round is suddenly starting to look better than Viconia's spellcasting advantage (which should be close to gone by this point). And you also don't have the Belt of Constitution, otherwise you'd notice a significant difference between the survivability of the two.
Anomen is just about as bad as Korgan in the AC department, especially after Viconia casts Draw Upon Holy Might. DUHM should be Viconia's favorite spell, which boosts her Str/Dex/Con to 20+ after you give her Mauler's Arm/some other strength item and the Belt of Con. I guess you could save 1 slot or two for spells like Chant, but the rest should be DUHM.

 

Damn... that's one item I forgot to put on my list of "get before Spellhold" items.

The Girdle of Fortitude? Hmm... I forgot it lasted for 8 hours. Time to add that to the morning ritual script!

Those are indeed very good during the early game (and much better than their name would suggest). I reserved one of her level 6 slots for Heal after Jaheira left, though I suppose I could free it up now that Edwin can spam Project Image fueled Rod of Resurrection charges.

I'm not a huge fan of short term buffs, though Draw Upon Holy Might is one of the best. I'm not convinced of Chant. Seems like a lot of clicking and waiting for very little gain. Only lasts one combat, and takes a full round to cast. Do you have any particularly compelling arguments in favor of Chant?

I usually fill up all level 2 Cleric spell slots with Hold Person (and a Slow Poison now that Jaheira is gone). It's not great in the tough fights, but it's expendable and saves a lot of damage in the easy fights. I suppose I should memorize a single Draw Upon Holy Might now that Viconia actually has the levels for it to matter.

 

Umm... Yeah. He's a berserker! Seriously though, if you don't like Korgan as a fighter, I don't know what to tell you. He is the best tank and best fighter in the game. He has the best THAC0, has the most hps, and once you throw on Gauntlets of Dexterity, full plate mail armor, and a decent shield, he should also have the best AC of your group as well. And his berserk ability gives him temporary immunity to just about every disabling spell effect in the game. What more do you want?

Of course if you're comparing combat ability, the one that has seven levels as a fighter is going to be better than the pure cleric, even if all things were equal, which they aren't. Anomen has exceptional strength, can dedicate more than one proficiency point into cleric weapons, way more hps (higher CON and d10 as a fighter) and is going be a better choice as a frontline combatant. Presumably though, you already knew that. Viconia, even with the girdle of fortitude, is not going to get as many hps as Anomen, and is far more suited to the role as support melee than primary frontline fighter. I use Viconia in much the same way I use a thief. I never have her engage immediately - I want the enemies to focus their attacks on other characters - and I bring her in selectively. Other times she uses a sling.

Now I'm having a bit of divine recall here. I seem to remember pointing this exact aspect of Edwin out to you when you were putting your party together. You get a lot of spells with Edwin, you lose out on utility compared to someone like Nalia or Imoen.

Who is the other party member? You have your kensai/thief, Edwin, Viconia, Korgan, and Imoen. Given that combination, I'd say you need a 2nd frontline guy. Someone like, say, Anomen, who you could have had fail his test and he would fit in just fine with an evil party.

Level 6 is one of those levels in cleric spells where there are a bunch of good choices. Heal, Flamestrike, False Dawn, and Bolt of Glory are all useful to have on hand.

It's more useful early in the game than later. Basically, you're using it for a short term buff to saving throws and THAC0. It's not a game changer by any stretch of the imagination, and to tell the truth the only reason I use it at all is because it's a level 2 spell, and you have so many level 2 spell slots with relatively few great choices. As you've said, you want a couple of DUHM, and a slow poison or two is fine to have on hand. Maybe one hold person. (If you're already in Spellhold, you don't really need any - most stuff you're encountering will either be flat out immune, or have saving throws good enough that they'll avoid the effect.)

I find many times that I have a surplus of level 2 spell slots, and I don't even use many of them before I have to rest again anyway, so Chant is something that provides marginal returns. If you have a druid, who doesn't get DUHM, there really is nothing else you'd need those spell slots for.

 

In a tank? Iron Skins!

You did? I can't remember and I can't find it either, though I may have overlooked it.

Sarevok. Until then, I'm splitting my XP five ways.

I use Wand of the Heavens for my Flame Striking needs. It's quicker and can't be disrupted.

False Dawn... I dunno. Powerful, sure, but I could just turn undead. Maybe I'd memorize False Dawn if I knew I'd face liches that I couldn't just run away from and send Skeleton Warriors at.

Bolt of Glory... fun to load three into Aerie's Spell Trigger, but I wouldn't keep it memorized.

Haha, I just found a bug: If you right-click a spell in your spell book, you can still right-click where the other spells were and open up loads of spell screens that way.

I used to assume the same. However, I wrote a script that casts Hold Person whenever it finds a really good target (bad saves, no immunity, etcetera), and it has fired at loads of creatures I never expected it to, including Yaga-Shura's soldiers.

Druids don't even get Chant. I just have them memorize nothing but Slow Poison. At least that keeps their spell menu short.

 

Oh, yes, and I'd love my berserker to cast time stop too, but I'm sticking to abilities within the class. All I'm saying is that a fighter is a tank, pure and simple, and a berserker is a better tank than a vanilla fighter or a kensai. I now a lot of people justifiably like Sarevok better than Korgan as a fighter, but I've never run into someone who said he was a valuable addition to a party.

Perhaps it wasn't this thread, but I do remember pointing out to you that there were aspects of F/T multi or dual classed characters in terms of utility that may be worth giving up extra memorization slots.

It's perfect for liches and also good for vampires. A couple of false dawns even takes out Bodhi, who can't be turned.

Good for demon smacking.

Hmmm... I didn't think I added a mod, but I do remember Jaheira being able to memorize Chant. In fact, in a previous playthrough I think I specifically had Jaheira memorize chant because I didn't need more than a couple of slow poisons, so it was chant or good berries.

 

If you want Ironskins use the Gargoyle Boots.

 

I was referring to Jaheira. All tooled up and leveled up, Jaheira is not only a great spellcaster but a better tank than Korgan as well thanks to Iron Skins.

It was Jaheira that I checked with. I don't have any funny mods either, just the fixpack, and that doesn't claim to change it. Perhaps she could memorize Chant in BG1...

Those only go up to 2, twice per day. Ironskins goes up to 5, six times per day.

 

Viconia and Anomen will have the similar stats once we start counting priest spells and items like Mauler's Arm (Bernard) and the Bracers of Dex/Girdle of Fortitude (both looted from the same quest). Viconia will have lower HP but unless "Max HP per level" is unchecked her HP high is enough in the sense that, when geared and properly buffed, she too can be a powerful frontliner in SoA. I mean seriously, 19 dex (25 at level 20 with DUHM) and divine spells? Just gear her up properly.

From my perspective the two are basically better spellcasting vs only female romance (early-mid game) and MR vs extra attack (overall).

I usually don't give my clerics offensive spells unless its the really powerful ones like False Dawn (melee), Sunray (melee), Blade Barrier (melee), Energy Blades. I don't like them casting offensive spells at inopportune times, when they should be about supporting allies, buffing themselves/the party, summoning something or wreaking havoc in melee. These are heavy armor-wearing support/defensive spellcasters who can reach 25 strength in SoA even without Crom Faer - unless they're using the Sling of Seeking, I see no reason not to send them into the fray. But in your party's case I guess allowances must be made... at most, you'll only have 3 casters after you get Sarevok.

 

The "better spellcasting" is negligible. Viconia levels slightly earlier (Anomen's 64000 Fighter XP means less than a level difference as soon as level 8) and gets a level 3 and 4 bonus spell due to Wisdom 18.

Viconia's pitiful 1 attack per round means she has plenty of spare time to cast spells in combat, I suppose. It's not like she has anything better to do during the second half of each round.

Speaking of magic resistance... 70% is nice but you still have to fear magic. 100% is something else entirely. What could I give Viconia to get her to 100%?

Why would they? Are you running a script that casts spells?

I'm working on a script that casts (almost) no spells in combat for that exact reason, and I'm really pleased with it. It should get hosted around here soon, but if anyone's interested in a beta, I can hook you up. Just let me know. I could use some feedback.

 

I rarely found the need to include my clerics in combat early in the game and by the mid game their spells easily overpowered any combat ability they had. I don't see Anomen as a significant boost over Viconia other than for the first few quests in chapter two. Jaheira is quite good throughout the game, though.