Hanging

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The question here is not whether or not the criminal was guilty, but whether the punishment fits the crime. There is also certainly no argument about whether or not it was a stupid thing to do. Crime is always stupid. But is stupidity an adequate reason to be hanged by the neck until dead - which is a particularly vile way of executing someone.

It's always essential for the law makers to keep an impartial, relatively unemotional state of mind, but it's in searching for the wrongs and rights of punishment that you have to become more emotive. Torture is not civilised, and because you can't have death without torture, execution is uncivilised, too.

The coldness of some people (even people in this thread) is a little too much for me to stomach. The death penalty is completely inhumane at best, and pure evil at worst, especially so for petty crimes.

 

Yeah, it's a stupid and rather grisly law, and if I (and I imagine most others here like Rotku who have come out against the death penalty) had any say about it, it'd be changed. But unless we are citizens of Singapore, we don't (and shouldn't) have a damn thing to say about it. It's their law and we have to respect it, just as the man who was hanged should have respected it. He broke the law and he paid for it; whether or not it was too much is not for us to determine.

 

Dealing heroin is not a petty crime, period, end of story, full stop.

 

But it doesn't matter if he was dealing heroin, he doesn't deserve to die. He deserves to go to jail (for a very long time), have his heroin confiscated, and have all of his contacts arrested, but not death.

I don't respect a law that kills people for crimes that did not result in anyones death. We should not respect a death law. Murder is not deserving of respect, period.

 

Oh, I probably wouldn't execute heroin dealers. Life in prison, yes, but probably not execution. But, the thing is...he knowingly risked his life to make money selling drugs. Makes it hard for him to complain, or others to say "that's not right".

Yes, it isn't right, but all he had to do to avoid being hanged was...not take heroin to Singapore. Pardon me if I'm unable to muster any sympathy or moral outrage.

 

You're right, he didn't deserve to be hanged, he deserved to be impreisoned, addicted, go through what his clients go through for the first 13 ounces then use the last ounce to give him an overdose. That way, he would learn the true horror caused by his sins, and could be better prepared to face judgement.

Capital punishment is how Singapore attempts to deal with drugs. It's their law. As long as they only hang the guilty ones, and a fair trial is given to establish that, we have no right to object.

Frankly, hanging is more cost effective than other forms of execution. You can re-use the rope, but firing squads use up bullets, lethal injections expend doses of costly drugs, and the needles aren't likely re-used. But I do agree with Chev on one thing--Death row prisoners shouldn't sit for years awaiting their fate. It should be done quickly.

 

@ AMaster, couldn't agree more.
we still have 2 states here in the us that offer hanging and firing squad (washington and utah respectivly). personally believe if the sentences were carried out in the town square and everybody was required to watch , it would be a much more effective detterent.

 

/cue the Clash

He fought the law and the law won....


Today 14 ounces, tomorrow 14 tons.

 

He should have respected the Singapore's laws. Maybe hanging is going too far, but I am sure he knew the risks.

If it were up to me, he would be flogged, but I will not feel too sorry for him.

 

Life in prison -- BAH. A life in prison sentence should be a short one. I have NO desire to pay to keep a criminal alive. Fine, let the bleeding hearts take up a 'feel sorry for the scum of the earth fund' to finance the prisons. We'll see just how much people care for low lifes.

 

So basically the next time you drive through red lights you'd want us to hang you? I'll have to keep that one in mind.

The thing is though that dealers are very often more or less users themselves. And from what I read from the guy it did not look like he was some big time dealer but more resembled someone who possibly did this to pay his drug debts. This is just speculation however since I really don't have enough background facts to judge the guy's motives.

 

Is the execution justifiable by Singapore law? Yes. End of story. We can't complain, because we don't live there. Do I think it's a harsh sentence? Yes. For a comparable crime in the U.S., if it was his first offense, he would likely have spent about a month in prison. According to the "three strikes and you're out rule", if you are convicted of three felonies, you can be sentences to jail for life. Trafficing heroin is certainly a felony, but if he had no previous felonies on his record, it would have been a short jail term in most countries.

 

Well, death penalty is indeed less constly than life in prison but who says life in prison has to be life on the couch, watching free porn till you die? Prisoners cost money. International law more or less clearly prohibits labour as punishment (invidual countries get away with community service because the offender can always choose prison instead), but it would be a good idea to make prisoners work. To make that work, their work would have to affect the conditions in which they are kept, give them some cash to spend or reduce the sentence or whatever such benefits, but does anyone know a better way of resocialisation than work? Several years of job experience isn't lost after being released, anyway. Prisoners' work can go towards compensating the victims if applicable, as well. Besides, I think work should often meet the purpose of "adequate" punishment: since many offenders offend to escape the need to work, making them work sounds quite fitting. Besides, sane people would eventually choose even unpaying work rather than boredom, anyway. So prison work all the way. Especially for drug pushers and others who are too smart to work like normal people.

 

Years ago "chain gangs" of working prisoners were common in the U.S. The term "chain gang" referred to the fact that they were all shackled together by the ankles to prevent them from escaping. They were involved in many activities, including clearing debris from roadways and even some minor construction projects. Another popular work program was to have some type of production facility in the prison, most notably license plate manufacturing (as in the piece of metal on the front and/or back of your car with numbers and letters on it). Now it's all automated, but in the old days, you had to place the numerals and letters in a cast before pressing the license plate, and it was done by hand. Since it was a job that required no prior training and further required negigible skill in anything, it was perfect for prisoners.

I guess the two big problems with this are: 1.) It's illegal to make someone work, even if they are a prisoner, and not pay them, and 2.) Once you start paying them, then you are going to have to allow them to spend their money on something. Then you're going to start seeing projection TVs and the like showing up in prisons. If you aren't going to pay them, or if you are going to severely restrict what they can buy if you do pay them, it will remove all incentive for them to work at all.

 

I don't see a problem with prisonders buying tv sets and the like with their own money. Unless they are so dangerous that they actually might whack some inmate in the head with that television set. I do believe in second chances and labour would be a good way of giving that. First giving them the opportunity to work there to earn money and then possibly offer them possibilities for further education or a job if they have done their job well enough. Plenty of prisoners will never find their proper place in the society but that's a risk I'm quite willing to take, atleast if the other options were to lock him for life or start using the death penalty.

I never really understood the point in making a prison a hell-like enviorment. Anyone living under the illusion that someone coming out from such an enviorment can ever hope to do something constructive with their lives? Then there are of course those who believe that once someone committs a crime they are scum forever and can never achieve anything good in their lives, I'm however quite confident that those people have it all wrong.

As for complaining about the penal system of Singapore. Well I don't see the point with this forum if we are not allowed to critizise anything other countries do. Of course Singapore has the right to choose their penal code themselves but I fail to see how that makes it beyoned criticism.

 

I'm no expert on this topic, but I do know that there are educational opportunities to prisoners in the U.S. At the very least, you can get a GED while in prison, and some even offer some trade skills. I can't defend that many prisons are hellish places, but most of them are the maximum security type prisons for the worst of the worst.

 

We have a course at uni that offers us the opportunity to teach inmates. You can choose between inmates and highschoolers.

 

Well don't know about hanging (there are probably better ways to die), but he knew the penalty. Drugs destroyed many parts of Asia, and continues to do so today so they take that kind of thing very seriously.